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Subject:Re: Neolithic Jade?
Posted By: gman Tue, Apr 15, 2008
Hi Danielle,
Quote:
"My friend Ben is quite a source of information on this stuff. It is very possible that it IS 4000 years old because China is digging up Neolithic Jade artifacts quicker than they know or have the resources to deal with. So a lot of these artifacts are being sold for bargain prices (as cheap as $15) on ebay and other auction websites."
Make sure your friend stays your friend by not buying any of his treasures from him.
Stop and realize that what he is saying is that the Chinese people are stupid and that after finding these neolithic artifacts they are now going to sell them CHEAP on the internet.
This is the equivelant of you and all of your neighbors picking up gold nuggets in your back yards and assuming that since there are so many nuggets that the best thing will be to sell them on the internet for next to nothing instead of by the current market value.
Quote;
" Ebay in fact will take them down if they get found out on there. Some controversy surround this - but yes its true - you can buy Neolithic Jade for very cheap prices."
Haha,
Most of the jades listed on eBay are described as neolithic, just as the one described in this thread.
How is eBay going to determine which are authentic?
How does Ben determine which ones are authentic? Does he flip a coin?
Back to the gold nuggets you and your neighbors found, should eBay customers then blindly take your word for it that the nuggets you are selling for pennies on the dollar are actually gold, and not something that only looks like gold?
Real jade experts start by determining the minerological quality of the stone by scratch tests and specific gravity tests to see whether it is jade, jadeite, or some lesser quality jade-like mineral such as serpentine, etc. This can't be done without having the specimen in hand.
If you paid $15, and the shipping was another $15 and you then pay an appraiser another $30 who gives you the bad news that it is not jade, and in his opinion not neolithic, and it will cost you another $15 shipping to return it to get your original $15 back, is Ben going to reimburse you the other $60?
Hahaha.
Quote:
" My friend, who has been outraged with this, buys as much as he can to archive it. He does pay thousands for some items, that are very large, but usually just within the tens or hundreds."
I really should not laugh.
Don't you think that it would have been helpful to your post to describe Ben's credentials which allow him to determine at a glance the authenticity of something most archaeologists, museum curators, and auction experts would find difficult to agree on without dig-site provenance? (a fool and his money are soon parted)
Quote:
" He has also made a software which collects information about neolithic jade including photos from auction websites, to try to archive these priceless artifacts that are being whored all over the world."
Other than eBay, you could spend all day looking up auction results from credible auction houses and not find more than a handful of authenticated neolithic jades.
Let's say that Ben says one of his $1000 jades is authentic, but no one at a credible auction house or museum will agree with him. Doesn't that mean that anyone he sells it to will never have anything more than his word to go by?
Those gold nuggets would be valuable if it turns out that they are gold. The jade carving is not valuable just because it is jade, any more than a painting which looks like a Van Gogh will be valuable just because it looks like a Van Gogh.
Quote:
"Eventually the Chinese government may get around to doing something about it, but for the moment, anyone can dig jade up from the dirt, and sell it on ... ebay."
You may want to do a Google search regarding the Chinese government's feelings on the subject of national treasures being exported out of the country. You will find they are quite harsh in punishing offenders.
Of course, if you were familiar with the social class systems in rural Chinese culture, you would probably realize that the rich businessmen are quite likely:
A. The owners of the land where the jades are dug up.
B. The employers of the person who found the jades.
C. Someone whom the government might harshly prosecute for allowing the illegal sales and exports of something which they are legally responsible for.
D. The people who say whether your child goes to school, or goes to work in the mines/rice paddies.
E. Enthusiastic collectors of jades and other antiquities and self proclaimed protectors of Chinese culture.
F. Someone who might reward you and your family for honesty.
G. Someone who might severely punish you and your family for dishonesty.
H. Someone who generally did not become rich by being a fool, or taking it lightly when someone steals what is rightly theirs.
I. Someone who can just as easily have the (authentic)jades copied and sell them on eBay to gullible people who believe the seller's claims.
It may become apparent that the Chinese businessmen may not be as stupid as they like to appear to be for selling authentic national treasures cheap and risking the lives of their families to do so.
Quote:
"Also, very old jade becomes crystalized and forms something of a web on the outside that looks like fiberglass - this is what jade does over many thousands of years. You may see some crystalization in the crevices - if you see this, its most definitely OLD, but there is in fact no way of ever telling exactly how old it is because jade cannot be carbon dated - and dating jade is in and of itself, a whole problem. "
Ask any geologist whether secondary growth of minerals or raised crystals on a carved stone "proves" anything about "when" it was carved, therefore all you are left with is the reality that there is currently no way to date a jade artifact which has no provenace other than for Ben to say it is old.
On the other hand, Ben may be right.
Break out you credit card if you like your odds!
It may be a whole lot safer to invest in Gold.
Cheers
Gman
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( China & Japan ) - Bill - Aug 08, 2006 (02:41 PM) 
