Asianart.com | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries


Visitors' Forum

Asian Art  Forums - Detail List
Asian Art Forums

Message Listing by Date:
Message Index | Back | Post a New Message | Search | Private Mail | FAQ
Subject:More Pics
Posted By: A_leah Sat, Apr 05, 2008 IP: 66.67.6.125

Three more for your consideration, noting the part of the bowl that demonstrates glazing inconsistent with the rest of the piece and demonstrating its shape.

Thanks for your help....







Subject:Re: More Pics
Posted By: phil Mon, Apr 07, 2008

Hi,
tiny gold flecks in the glaze can be a good sign, there are several things you can look for to help authenticate these types of wares but unfortunately it seems the fakers have the hang of producing convincing pieces.
On your bowl I don`t like the look of the foot too much I`m sorry to say, it looks similar to some replicas I was sent photo`s of, what you should do first is place the foot in the palm of your hand & rotate the bowl gently, if you feel any sharp edges or points the bowl is certainly new & you will save spending further time on it.
I`ll post the feet of a couple of Jian Yao bowls that I have, they may help you compare, note the colour of the paste.

As you know many copies can be found & they can be very good, one last thing are there any repairs to your bowl? I ask as many on the market are kiln wasters & damage or repairs are not unusual.

Phil.





Subject:Re: More Pics
Posted By: A_leah Mon, Apr 07, 2008

Phil,

Thanks for your help. The foot of the bowl feels smooth to me, and I didn't see any repairs. I took some shots of what appears to be a glaze "blob" on the foot of the bowl. Parts of it still look shiny, so I'm guessing that probably means it is new. I also took some extra shots of the foot. I hope they are more clear. I know those of you often mention "wasters", I'm imagining these are kiln rejects. In the first set of pics, the first shot shows what looks like a "fireworks" pattern, whereas the third shot looks like "the more desirable" appearance of hare's fur. Would this qualify it as defective, and therefore a "waster"?
Thanks for the examples, and of course, your opinions. I'm having my $45 worth of fun learning here.

Thanks!





Subject:Re: More Pics
Posted By: Robert Tue, Apr 08, 2008

Comparing these, Phil's last pic looks a lot like the base of A. Leah's bowl. Same purplish color, same grain, same beveled shape. The other pics Phil posted show a more red-brown stoneware paste. In the recent book "Hare's fur, Tortoiseshell, and Partridge feathers - Chinese brown and black glazed ceramics, 400-1400", there is a good selection of Jian ware bowls beginning with plate 76. The author's state that such bowls are surprisingly heavy for their size. Maybe another clue to consider? I also should add that I like the heavy welt of glaze on the one side of A. Leah's bowl, which look like one would see in a period piece. That said, the fakers are obviously aware of these aspects too. A. Leah: Would is be possible to ask the seller where the bowl came from to establish some sort of provenance? For example, if the bowl came out of an old estate where it sat for more than 20 years, that would be a good sign - it's unlikely that fakers more than 20 years ago were as adept as those today.

Subject:Re: More Pics
Posted By: wingchuntaiji Tue, Apr 08, 2008

Why fake if there have been a lot of these items flooding the market in the last 30 years?

Subject:Re: More Pics
Posted By: A_leah Wed, Apr 09, 2008

Robert,

Could you tell me names of the authors for the book you mention?
I didn't ask the proprietors who consigned the bowl because I figured they'd probably just tell me a fairy tale!

Thanks again for your help!

Subject:Re: More Pics
Posted By: Robert Thu, Apr 10, 2008

The book I mentioned is by Robert D. Mowrey, Harvard University Art Museums Press, Cambridge, MA, 1996. Try searching abebooks.com.

I disagree with Randy that there is a "flood" of Jian bowls on the market. Also, all Jian bowls are not created equal - the more kiln effects in the glaze the better. Yours is a very good (not a run-of-the-mill) example of the 'hairs fur' effect. At the top of the pecking order, however, are the few Jian bowls with big, bold, silvery-iridescent 'oil spots'. One such bowl in an old Shogun Japanese collection is said to be priceless; were it to come to the market it could easily bring more than $20 Million, or set the record for a Chinese ceramic. Unfortunately, these too have been faked in the last 10 or so years.

Subject:Re: More Pics
Posted By: Cal Wed, Apr 09, 2008

Phil probably right to say "it's unlikely that fakers more than 20 years ago were as adept as those today."

But when James Marshall Plummer's book published 1972 (after his death) he said he had worked with a potter to recreate temmoku hare's fur effects, and had plenty time from 1930s when first did exploration.

Such potters considered this study to recreate effect, not 'faking' to sell as 500-year-old.

Glaze recipes, firing methods, also known 1960s-1970s, see books Robert Tichane.

Interesting article (2005) here:

http://www.ceramicsmonthly.com/cmpc/richcontent/koons-0305.pdf

Good luck,
Cal


Asianart.com | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries |