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My wife and I both love turtles and we have two pet turtles at home and she treated them almost like her children. Therefore, I have been trying to collect at least 99 or 100 jade turtles. Used to, you can find at least some decent jade turtles that were made of nephrite jades. A few of them actually looked old. Recently, almost every jade turtle I have seen anywhere look lousy and if they were semi-decent and made of nephrite they would not be cheap. I tried to get friends in both Hong Kong and China to assist me in looking for decent jade turtles. A friend in China show me pictures of several jade turtles, but even some questionable one the dealer wanted RMB 1000 or more. That is simply too risky in buying them based on low-resolution pictures alone.

Not too much luck in Hong Kong either.

I look through many auctions or jade books, except a few authentic neolithic one, there did not seem to be that many arhaic jade turtles around. I do not know why. My friend B told me that jade turtles did not become popular till Ming or Qing dynasty. I do not know how true that is.

I bought four Liangzhu style turtles from him. They all had regular top-shells like a real turtle. A taotie was carving at the top of the shell and half shown on each side of each turtle. After testing all of them, they were not made of nephrite jade. However, the taoties were carved very nicely. I had not been able to find any similar "Liangzhu" turtles with nice taoties like them. B regreted in selling them to me bcause he could not buy them back. My question is: are they old or new? Why I have not seen any of them? (*I may try to post their pictures later)

I would like to find a very nice jade turtle made of either celadon or white Hetian jade. Possibly made in early Republic or earlier. Yet I have not seen any for sales anywhere. Most celadon "jade" turtles are modern and made of serpentine.

Therefore it make me wonder:

(1) Are there really that many archaic jade turtles to start with?

(2) Where are all these jade turtles? Why I did not see too many decent one for sales?

Well, may be some members can provide some insights regarding where one can find some nice jade turtles and if it is really hard to find decent one and why. If they have some nice jade turtles/tortoises themselves, please post their pictures here with details (material, age, when and where they got them, etc.)

Thanks.

Bill

More than two years ago I happened to acquire four Liangzhu style turtles from my friend, Bosco. None of them were made of nephrite jade but all had pretty nice taoties on them. One looks better and older than three others. However, I do not believe they are authentic Liangzhu pieces because the carving techniques applying on the carving lines of the taoties simply did not match that of Liangzhu.

However, I had not seen a single turtle with decent taotie on its shell for sales since then. Bosco thought he could have replaced them but couldn't find similar one either.

I happened to mention this to a jade friend in Hong Kong and he told me he had bought a similar turtle in Hong Kong and he only knew of a similar one owned by another jade collector in Hong Kong.

I had obtained his permission to post his Liangzhu turtle here.

I do not really know how rare this type of turtles (with taoties) are but it is quite strange that I have not been able to find another one for sale. If any members have similar one or see any similar one for sales, please post their pictures here or let me know where I can find them. Thanks.

Bill

hey Bill
Check here

http://www.ah.xinhuanet.com/zhuanti/2007-05/17/content_10052904.htm

The neolithic jade turtle unearthed consists of only the shell and no limbs.

Dear Hallo:

Thank you for your link. It is interesting that the turtle carapace posted in your link is very similar to a yellow jade turtle carapace that was excavated from a Hongshan site. Coinidentally, I have used it (the Hongshan one) as an example to show that there were indeed authentic neolithic "jade turtle carapace" because another member claimed there were no such things and I did not know what I was talking about.

Now, have you seen any nice jade turtles especially one made with white or celadon Hetian jade or even mutton-fat jades anywhere?

Where can one find a nice jade turtle?

Bill

Only online and overpriced.
http://www2.mycollect.net/shop/105122.html
Caledon jade turtle sold for $3000US wow...

I have yet to see an example of recent well made jade turtle in china not being passed off as an antique. Maybe because there is negative connotation with modern use of the word turtle its not presented as modern art anymore.

But certainly there are neolithic jade turtles. Check last pic of this article.
http://www.lnwh.gov.cn/nhl1.asp
The turtles are clearly shown in this excavation in Liaoning province.

Here an expert made the claim that there is distinctive differences in sex of neolithic jade turtles.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/newscenter/2008-11/04/content_10302160.htm

Hi Bill,

It is our understanding that jade turtles/tortoises were relatively more common from Neolithic (maybe the people then already associated turtles/tortoises with longevity) to Han and perhaps all the way to Song. Also, tortoise is one of the “four supernatural animals); the others are dragon, phoenix/bird and qilin/tiger). The Qin was the first to use the tortoise knob on official seals for first grade officials. The Han continued this tradition of carving seals with tortoise knobs for princes, generals and governors. In rankings, perhaps it was just below the dragon because King Guangling’s Seal (Eastern Han) has a turtle knob.

Therefore, the tortoise was a powerful symbol until the Ming Dynasty, Qing (especially this period) to the Republic when the popularity seemed to disappear. Perhaps because by then, the tortoise had a more nefarious connotation. In Chinese slang, the husband of an adulterous wife is called “turtle man”. Also, the young boys/helpers working in brothels were known as “turtle boys”. And the woman (or mama-san) who ran the brother was Madam Tortoise. Even now, when someone wants to insult another, he/she might call him/her a “turtle”.

We have a book that compiles the sales of over 2000 jades from New York, London, Hong Kong, Beijing, Shanghai, etc. (over 40 auction houses) between 1996 – 2005 and only 2 small pieces of jade turtles were recorded. One was from Song and the other from Ming.

Nowadays, one can find new inexpensive jadeite, glass turtles (and the sample you posted) much more easier than nephrite ones. Here is a photo of a new nephrite turtle that we acquired in Hong Kong last year. It measures about 3.0 x 2.5 cm. We sold it to one of our regular customers who collects animals carved in the round. He has given us permission to post these photos.

We wish you the best of luck on your quest to collect 99 nephrite turtles.

Oriental Treasures

Hi Bill,

I just did a quick check of completed auctions at Sotheby's, Christie's, and Bonham's and collectively they all had about one dozen in the last 5 years.

So, no, it doesn't appear to be many genuine antique jade turtles available, with the prices they bring I'm sure if there were more on the market you would see more at these auction houses.

There's one 2.5 inches long that sold last year @ Christies in Hong Kong for $8,400 USD. Click on the link below.

Cheers,
Michael

URL Title :Christie\'s Auction Result

Hi Bill & all,
I think this is the sort of thing you may be looking for Bill. This small turtle is only about 1/4" long & bought in HK, as it was a gift I don`t know the cost but think not so much. I`m also unsure of the age but again think it`s probably not very old. Still it is very nice.

I was surprised that no one has mentioned the use of turtle plastrons, (the under shell of the turtle) during the Shang dynasty for ritual divination. During this time turtle plastrons replaced bovine scapulas, (oracle bones) & excavated examples are very important as they show early developement of the written chinese language. Maybe their importance as ritual objects has something to do with the popularity of jade representations?

All the best,
Phil.

Dear Phil:

Thank you for sharing this turtle with me and I agree it does look quite nice. I thought it was quite bit until I saw its size (1/4") and it is a very very small turtle. Are you sure its size posted here is correct? I wonder what it was made of and how they carved such a tiny turtle.

I actually like my turtles a little bit bigger and I like giant nephrite turtles too because it would be very difficult to find one this day. Most modern turtles would be carved with serpentine.

Thanks.

Bill

Dear Michael:

Thank you very much for your diligent search of jade turtle on my behalf. I really appreciate. Sorry for the delayed response because I just saw your message today.

The piece you show here was made of jadeite and not of nephrite or other more typical Chinese jade material used in older dynasties. That make one wonder may be jade turtle was not really that popular or most collectors hold on to them and would not sell them (just like me). I believe an authentic antique one would not be cheap.

Again, thanks.

Bill

Dear Oriental Treasures:

Thank you for your reply. I did not see it till today. I wonder the turtle you posted here is more celadon than white? I was attempting to find a turtle made of Hetian jade, in either celadon color or white color or possibly mutton fat jade but apparently they are very difficult to come by.

Recently I did acquire several bigger turtles that were made of genuine nephrite, one I believe was quite modern and the other two I could not really tell. Because of their huge sizes, I do not believe they could be made within the last twenty years. Most large modern "jade" pieces were always made of Xiu Yan jade (serpentine) and were seldom made of nephrite.

Bill

No, it is definitely white nephrite. In fact other dealers may pass it off as mutton fat to the less-informed collector.

Oriental Treasures

Dear Oriental:

Please understand that I was not questioning whether your turtle was made of nephrite at all because one could tell that it was made of pretty good quality nephrite jade from the pictures you posted. However, from experience, I learned that many truly white nephrite jade will appear to be celadon (pale green) in their pictures and the celadon one will appear to be white. It is really really hard to capture the real color of white nephrite jade. For mutton-fat jade it is almost impossible to capture its color because it is not really white but almost a translucent grayish color. There are right now too many white jade were being sold as Hetian jade or mutton-fat jades on eBay but they were neither. Either one would cost a fortune if they are of high quality.

Again, thanks for sharing. I actually love very vivid celadon Hetian jade carvings. They were not supposed to be as rare as either mutton-fat jade or white Hetian jade, but yet I seldom see them on sales. I wonder why.

Again, thanks for sharing.

Bill

Dear Bill,

Could you please post photos of your recent purchases of those large nephrite turtles you mentioned?

Oriental Treasures

i recently bought one. i dont know how to tell if it is either. i can send u a picture. i do not know much about jade. i bought it from a man selling sea shells that said it was from his personal collection. he needed the money . i offerd him close to what he wanted. a jewelry expert told me it was worth 5 t0 7 hundred dollars. i believe it is worth a lot more.

Please start a new post and show some sharp pictures of your item, maybe we can help
Ernest

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