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Hello, I have an opportunity to purchase a Late Yuan/Early Ming imperial jade colored Longquan celadon glazed dragon dish measuring 26 ¼ inches in diameter, 6 inches in height and weighing 28 pounds. The dish/charger is decribed as being sold by a Balinese temple to a local (Bali, Indonesia) antique dealer. Any information as to its originality and estimated value is greatly appreciated.
Thank you-Bryan

Just a couple of observations: Whenever the term "unique" actually applies to something, then you can say virtually with 100-percent certainty that it is not a piece of antique Chinese porcelain. The same shapes and patterns were made over and over and over again for as long as dynastic rule prevailed. Major museums simply refer to it as "design continuation."

This green basin isn't unique on another count, as it's just one in a long line of "commercially presentable" Indonesia-origin fakes that have been polluting foreign markets for at least the past five years that I've aware of. The first word I heard of them came around that time from a US dealer in Asian antiques who'd been offered such stuff by a middleman. CAVEAT EMPTOR!

Best regards,

Bill H.

This is a newly made piece. Note I did not say copy.

New, it don't look like a new piece made in China, possible Indonesia made?

Not sure on the boards rules reguarding warning potential buyers about certain sellers but to save you or someone else from wasting $10,000 for something like this, don't touch anything this sellers has unless you really know your stuff! When it comes to ceramics, 80% of his stuff are modern fakes including this absurd piece. Some of his shipwreck items are real though. Although at present all 3 of his Chinese ceramics on offer at eBay are all fake. At not even good ones at that. This are tourist trinkets sold as decorative items. They will not fool even a moderately seasoned collector. They are that bad.

The seller is one of the original fake sellers on eBay that got started much earlier than others. While others have gone, somehow he still remains. I dunno why. Tenacity of a badger maybe. And plain nastiness if you ever try to return an item to him because it's a fake. He follows a well known tactic of professional fake sellers on eBay. Have a long winding description, load any potential buyers with information and facts, lots of links to real items to make his items look more legitimate and before long you start to concentrate on information from the seller rather than concentrate on what the seller is selling.

Also another point to consider it is against the law in Indonesia to sell cultural heritage treasures. Wouldn't you think that such a huge one of a kind celadon charger would fit the bill as a national treasure?

Don't bid unless you really like it and have money to burn.

Hello Bryan,

Well, those older ware isn't really my area but I think I wouldn't believe such a story of temples selling their stuff. I think I would believe the seller when he told me it was made last month. The emperor, in that time, probably cutted the makers head of if he showed him those dragons with only four claws.
Sorry, I have a bad feeling about it but lets see what others have to say.

Regards,

Arjan

Thank you to all the experts who responded to my post.

I am happy to see that many on this forum are aware of the fake sellers of chinese ceramics on ebay. This greatly assists "novices" like myself in this specific area of collecting.

PyroManiac made a good point "Not sure on the boards rules reguarding warning potential buyers about certain sellers...." Maybe a modification to this forum could include a site that lists fake ebay or other sellers and genuine sellers based on this forums experts' experiences?

Again, thank you all - Bryan

It is an "original" product, like nothing in the past.

The knowledgeable commentators might have told you what is wrong with this compared with old piece.

--the stubby clumsy dragons
--glaze color of modern florist-ware recipe (wrong chemistry)
--not a speck of wear or crazing of glaze
--Yuan dynasty potters never make molded-crisp design like this
--red-color added to base
--shape wrong, even if not warped
--crude concentric part-circles not even close imitation Yuan style waves.

As others say, not imitation or good try at reproduction. Probably dozens or more made to sell one at a time in various places. This one a 'factory second' because warped; ones not warped could be sold department store for decorators.

Good luck,
Cal

Hi Bryan,
as you know now this piece is a fake, did you buy from ebay or were you in Bali? Although Bali is full of fake porcelain there still is a large amount of genuine pieces that you can find for little money, mainly Ming blue & white as well as Yuan qingbai & different bits & pieces that were exported to S.E. Asia over the centuries. If you read a few books & arm yourself with some basic knowledge it can be fun hunting in Indonesia, you will also be offered many pieces like the one you posted but you know now these & similar pieces are to be avoided so don`t be put off buying pieces from that part of the world because you`ve been burnt this time.

All the best,
Phil.

Hi Phil,

No, I did not buy this piece based on this forum's experts' observations (thank you all!)and my own "gut" feeling. I am a novice in Chinese antique celadon collecting and this forum has proven to be very reliable.

This item is listed on ebay via a dealer in Bali, Indonesia.

Thanks again to all who responded to my post.

Regards - Bryan

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