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Could anybody recommend some books on traditional Chinese collecting practices (i.e. catalogueing, seals, inscriptions and packaging) What sort of boxes are used to house precious antiques by collectors?

Something to do with 19th Century Shanghai collectors specifically would be of great interest.

I know the Japanese have a long history of making incredible boxes for their objects - Could anybody point me in the direction on some publications on this subject from a Japanese perspective as well?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts. So far I have found three books which may be of use. One on imperial packaging during the Qing (http://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Packing-Art-Qing-Dynasty/dp/7800473147) another on Wu Hufan and his practice of collecting (http://www.amazon.com/Hufan-Twentieth-Century-Connoisseur-Shanghai/dp/3496013826/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265529063&sr=1-1) and lastly Zhou Mi's Record of Clouds and Mist Passing Before One's Eyes: An Annotated Translation (http://www.amazon.com/Zhou-Record-Clouds-Passing-Before/dp/9004126058)

Any thoughts and suggestions for books and research would be a great help. I thank you in advance,

Brad

you've found some great books Brad. the Wu Hufan book is a new one to me, so I'll definitely check that out. You might try van Gulik's Chinese Pictorial Art (as Viewed by the Connoisseur). there are several reprints available. it's mostly concerned with scroll mounting but van Gulik's interests in connoisseurship generally and his command of the Chinese literature in that field make it a useful source of information. you might also be interested in Stacey Pierson, ed. "Collecting Chinese Art: Interpretation and Display"
(http://www.paragonbook.com/html/browsesubj/fullcitation.cfm?item=22741). There's also a book of two biographical essays on John Ferguson and Duan Fang that should be available cheaply but whose author and title I can't recall. I think it's published by the Freer Gallery. There's also a book or two out now on collections of Chinese wooden display stands for porcelain and other objects. On painting catalogs, there's Hin-cheung Lovell's "An Annotated Bibliography of Chinese Painting Catalogues and Related Texts" Ann Arbor U Michigan Center for Chinese Studies 1973. van Gulik covers some of the same ground. There's also Craig Clunas Superflous Things on Ming collecting.

Your query is very wide ranging. can you be more specific about what you are looking for? 19th century Shanghai collectors, I take it? I think you'll need to go to Chinese and Japanese texts pretty quickly for this.

I'm sorry its taken me so long to reply to this. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to my query. And yes, still looking for books on this subject. I really appreciate your thoughts and hope we can bounce more ideas. Gulik's work is a great suggestion. Though I've read it, it is a while ago and I think revisiting it is a great idea. The Pierson book is a new one to me so thank you for that I will check it out. Would one of the books on Chinese wooden stands be the catalogue of the Songde Tang collection published in HK? I am using Clunas's Superfluous Things- I seem to use it for everything it is such a gem.

Let me be more specific. I am researching on Gong Xinzhao (1870-1949) - from Hefei then moved to Shanghai, a contemporary of Wu Hufan, mostly known for his zisha ware collection... Many of his objects are now in the Shanghai museum. He had an incredible collecting process that involved custom made boxes (made of the best material - imperial zitan for example!) to protect pieces, the inside of which adourned with cushioned silk brocade, personal seals and inscriptions were pasted with details of purchase, comparative pieces, thoughts etc. I'm looking for books that talk about this sort of process executed by the collector, or any process taken by the collector in terms of collecting and packaging. Any thoughts are really welcome, this first message is a great help and any further suggestions are very welcome. Reccomendations of Chinese / Japanese texts would be interesting, my Chinese is intermediate, reading isn't great but if the text is essential (and not immensely lengthy) I can plough through it no probs. Thank you!

my pleasure, but I don't have a heck of a lot to add. I'd suggest, however, that one way to get more information on actual practice is to consult museum curators and holdings to see whether you can visit some of the more interesting packaging in their holdings. obviously the objects themselves are what get displayed, and the packaging is almost always left in the storeroom. don't know where you are located but the freer gallery for sure is open to anyone who asks to see something there, though there is a highly specialized union that dominates the actual art handling at all these places (now there's a job), so you'd have to coordinate to ensure that you saw the packaging.

the ferguson/duan fang book is put out by the Spencer Museum, Kansas, not Freer, by the way. I think Tom Lawton is the author of the papers though. worth checking as it overlaps your period.

email me offline and we can follow up. I don't know much about this but would be interested in looking into it also.

Dear Rat (or perhaps you have another name I should go by?),

I checked out the Ferguson/ Duan Fang book of which I think the Dan fang part will be very useful. It is as you say the same time period as Gong Xinzhao dealing with a similar calibre of collector. I am in Taipei (undergoing an apprenticeship in mounting and restoring paintings and calligraphy) at the moment and have seen some of Gong Xinzhao's boxes - it would be no good going to the Shanghai Museum as they threw away all these boxes upon receiving artifacts from Gong Xinzhao's family. A great tragedy in my opinion as these boxes are works of arts / artefacts within themselves. So I have had access to the objects. Now really am trying to find a context in which to write about the packaging of this collector. You have been a great help and I am very greatful. It's still quite a thin area of research, there seems to be not on the actual collecting process of conserving artifacts by collectors - i.e. creating appropriate packaging for preservation. I still haven't managed to have a look at Zhou Mi's Record of Clouds and Mist passing before One's Eyes & try and find a translation of Dong Qichang's Sishan Shuo as I think this may (or may not) have some sort of traditional methodology like there is a little of in Wen Zhenheng's (Clunas Superfluous). Feel a little stumped still though but I think you are 100 percent, go to the objects and concentrate there. Look forward to your thoughts. Do email me, thanks!

Thanks,

Brad

I would recomend books by Anthony Allan

Hello Brad! I'm three years late, but I found this thread while researching on chinese packaging for a university work. It has been rather difficult for me to find information on this kind of art, which seems to be indeed underappreciated. I was wondering if you have any information that could help my research. So far I have only found the first book you mentioned to be helpful (I had already came in contact with it before I found this thread), and there seems to be very little information on chinese packaging apart from the one in that book. Even though it had a great amount of information, I've been trying to find something special about these packages (or one in particular), but so far I've had no luck. I hope you see this and consider sharing something you might know! Thank you so much and sorry for bothering you.

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