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Recently, kk posted pictures of some "authentic" Hongshan jade items in his thread:

http://www.asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=41607#41631

for the discussion of tool marks found on Hongshan jade items.

After reading my comments regarding jade material used in the making of authentic Hongshan jade carvings, this was his response:

"I don’t think we disagree on the HS jade material; yes, most are Yiu Yu but a few are local stones and few possible local nephrite. Any idea what type of jade “C” dragon is made from? Hetian jade found in Xinjiang near Hetian only. Most Ming Qing jades are hetain jades."

While I am flattered that he agreed with what I said, however I am not sure he understood exactly what I believe what credible Hongshan jade material are because I do not know for sure myself.

While many Hongshan jade collectors seem to believe most Hongshan jade carvings were made of Xiu Yan jade (or Xiu Yu) 岫岩玉, I am not sure that is true or not. It is because I am unable to find a list of excavated Hongshan jade carvings with their material being identified by scientific methods (such as testing their S.G., MOH hardness, refractive index and other scientific testing). The description of excavated Hongshan jade carvings or those that were owned by museums only identified them as "jade" with their colors. Jade can mean anything in China. I would love to find out the exact material of some of these vivid bright yellow Hongshan jade carvings because I could not tell if they were made of nephrite or bowenite.

Secondly, Xiu Yan jade can mean different things to different jade collectors. The modern Xiu Yan jade is a type of serpentine, usually celadon or yellowish-green, with a MOH hardness of 5 or less and can be scratched by metal. its S.G. is between 2.60-2.70. Another Xiu Yan jade that collectors believe could be used for Hongshan jades is being called "Bowenite" (though this term is not really appropriate), that is either yellowish, yellowish-green or brownish, it has a MOH hardness of about 5.5 and cannot be scratched, but its S.G. is similar to serpentine since it is supposedly to be a type of serpentine. However, I had also seen two other types of Xiu Yan jades, one is black-green (almost black), looks and feels exactly like nephrite (Bi Yu), cannot be scratched by metal, but its S.G. is only about 2.70, significantly lower than that of nephrite's 2.90). Another one is a mixture of nephrite and serpentine, with a S.G. of between 2.80-2.89, kind of reddish-yellow and cannot be scratched. I believe these two later material are older Xiu Yan jade.

If you would read the "Hongshan jade material" section (p. 2) of the article, "The Appraisal & Authentication of Hongshan jade carvings" written by the famous Chinese jade expert, Mr. Zhou Nam Quan:

http://art.people.com.cn/BIG5/41067/4089669.html

紅山文化玉器的材質
The Material of Hongshan culture jade carvings

紅山文化玉器採用的玉料，是鑒定紅山文化玉器真偽的首要問題，以往的鑒賞者似不太注意。紅山文化玉器採用的玉料有三類：類似新疆瑪納斯碧玉的深綠色玉，被稱為“老岫玉”的寬甸玉以及岫岩玉。

The type of jade material used in the making of Hongshan jade carvings, will be the first question to ask when one attempts to authenticate any Hongshan jade carvings. This was seemingly ignored by appraisers in the past. There are three types of jade material used in the making of Hongshan jade carvings:

(1) Bi Yu (Green Jade) that resembles those mined in Manasi (Manasi County, Manasi River, Manasia River Basin), XinJiang;

(2) "Old Xiu Yu" or KuanDian jade 寬甸 (KuanDian is a county in the Liaoning province, China)

(3) Xiu Yan jade (Xiu Yu) 岫岩玉 (Xiu Yan is a county in Liaoning).

　　
在內蒙古翁牛特旗三星它拉採集的紅山文化玉龍，其玉料與通常認為后來才出現的新疆瑪納斯碧玉相似，若排除瑪納斯所產的話，推測其產地很可能在東北或內蒙古、或靠近這一文化區域的蒙古國或俄羅斯遠東地區的某地，但似乎不產於紅山文化區域內。這種玉料之確切產地尚在調查之中，至今仍無定論。也就是說，用這種玉料制成的紅山文化玉器，其可信度是肯定的，因為其獨特玉料的產地還未找到。

The material of the large C-dragon (fig. 1) that was found in Inner Mongolia during the 1970s 内蒙古赤峰市翁牛特旗三星他拉村出土过“Ｃ”型玉龙， was found to resemble the Manasia Bi Yu (green jade or blue green jade) found later in Manasia (River, at northern foot of Tian Shan Mountain). Its original source may be northeastern China, Inner Mongolia, or inside the Mongolian kingdom or Russia (far east) that were adjacent to the Hongshan culture area, but did not seem likely that it was mined inside the Hongshan area. The exact source of this type of green jade is still waiting to be determined. Therefore because of the inability to determine the exact source of this type of material, the authenticity of Hongshan jade carvings (such as the Large C-Dragon) that were made of this material should be quite certain because the mining source of this unique jade material still cannot be confirmed.

還有一種玉料硬度接近6度，以透閃石為主體，文物界和地質界俗稱為“老岫玉”，產於今遼寧省的寬甸縣，今又稱寬甸玉。

Another jade material with a MOH hardness close to 6.0, made of mostly tremolite, is labeled by cultural and geological people as "Old Xiu Yu", was mined in the KuanDian county of the Liaoning province in China, and is therefore also called "KuanDian jade".

第三種玉料的硬度較低，在5度左右，以蛇紋石為主體，產於今遼寧省岫岩縣，今多稱其為岫岩玉。

The hardness of the third material is lower, around 5.0, composed mainly of serpentine, mined from the Xiu Yan county of Liaoning province and is known as "Xiu Yan Yu", or Xiu Yan jade or Xiu Yu.

值得指出的是，后兩種玉料因確定為紅山文化所用玉料，產地亦在紅山文化區域內，取材方便且價格不貴，故今偽仿者多用它制作假紅山文化玉器。

On thing that is worth mentioning is because the last two material (Old Xiu Yu and Xiu Yan jade) were confirmed to be jade material used in the making of authentic Hongshan jade carvings, their mining sources are inside the Hongshan area, their prices are reasonable and they are convenient to obtain, therefore many fakers very often used these two later types of jade material to make Hongshan jade fakes.

紅山文化玉器的本來顏色，有白、青、碧、黑或青中帶黃、白中帶黃諸色，典型的黃玉極罕見，少數亦見有灰白色者。

The "original" colors of Hongshan jade carvings are:

White, celadon, bluish-green (dark green), black, green with yellow tint, white with yellow tint. A typical or classic YELLOW color is extremely rare. A small numbers are grayish-white.

(*NOTE: I have yet been able to see any excavated or museum Hongshan jade carvings that are white)

From the above paragraphs quoted from an article written by Mr. Zhou Nam Quan one can see that he believes there are three credible jade material that were used in the making of authentic Hongshan jade carvings. He believes the first jade material, a dark green (Bi Yu) that was used in making the No. 1 Dragon in China - the large C-dragon, is the most credible material because the original mining source of this material still could not be confirmed. While the other two, Old Xiu Yu or KuanDian yu (nephrite, tremolite) and Xiu Yan yu (serpentine) while they could be found in authentic HS jade carvings but due to their easy accesses and cheap prices, they were also found in the making of many fake HS jade items.

However, while in the recent CCTV video recommended by kk, I did see old Nephrite mines in Liaoning, however, most these nephrite are the one with Tang color (or sugar jade, a brownish color). I had seen some "authentic" HS jade carvings that were made of a bright celadon color nephrite jade with its quality matches or exceeds that of Hetian jade. I am not sure they are as readily available as Mr. Zhou indicated.

I will try to post more about HS jade material from other jade experts' viewpoints later.

Thanks.

Bill


P.S. I do know that Hetian jade was found near Hetian (Khotan) in XinJiang only. What I was trying to say was some of the Hongshan jade carvings were made of a nephrite jade that matches or exceeds the quality of Hetian jade, and not necessarily made of Hetian jade.

Further more, some jade collectors/experts believe these nephrite jade were Hetian jade. While that may sound far-fetched but if you consider how Hetian jade carvings were also found inside the tomb of the Lady Fu Hao (Shang dynasty) and consider the long distance between the Shang tomb and XinJiang, it may be as difficult to explain how Hetian jade could be transported so far away. Therefore, one must keep any open mind.

More info about Manasi Bi Yu:

http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=308541451

Please see my latest reply at "tool marks on antique jade #3" I let the Shenzheng Museum answer your question.

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