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Dear forum
I bought this bottle from an antique dealer in portabella road,he reassured me that it is antique and i have no reason to doubt his integrity.However two of the people i know told me that it is new,one even went as far as: " if this is antique i will walk on my head".Whereas i do not wish to see him walk on his head( and i don't know how he would do it) i would be immensely grateful if someone can tell me if this is antique or modern.I must admit this item does not look new to me....or may be i am just too inexperient
Many thanks

This is pretty typical of late Qing dynasty red glazed ceramics, circa 1880 to 1900.

Even if 'antique' (100 years old) the porcelain quality is not high and the glazing not well done -- should not show the odd blurred grid as in your vase. The countersunk base could have been intended to imitate something from the Qing Dynasty Kangxi reign, but overall quality belies such an intention.

While fired fairly well, modern kilns can attain the conditions necessary for copper-red glazes.

If you should wish in the future to photograph pieces with interesting glazes, do it in natural light against a neutral (gray or tan) background using no flash, and with a tripod.

Good luck,
Cal

Many thanks TONY and CAL
Best wishes
toan

Yes this is a 19th century langyao piece and it does come with a very well carved early 20th century stand. Next time you look for a 18th century piece these are the feature. 1) Crackle light blue tinge glaze on the inside and base of vase. 2) carved back glaze on the foot rim. 3) Copper red glaze has few bubbles and a slight crackle.4) red glaze runs down the vase with a streak and the mouth area is grey in color as the red glaze thins to words the mouth rim. 5) broken bubbles on the mouth rim. This piece is from Sothebys.

Lee,
I am sorry but I find little support for many of your assertions. Dating a piece by its circular stand is exceptionally dangerous, and I hate to think how many round pieces I "married" over the years, with wood stands I had available. It is entirely different with custom made wood stands for unusually modelled jades or 3 or 4 legged censers and mythical animals of odd shape.

But to state that carved back glaze of the foot rim is a feature of 18th century langyao glazes is just so incorrect it is in my opinion irresponsible to even suggest it. In fact, quite the opposite applies, as the vast majority of 18th century red glazes ran out relatively evenly on the foot rim, supposedly because a clear glaze was applied to the foot rim first.

The notable exception was the flambe glaze, which was often too fluescent, requiring turning back to remove the over-runs.

The shape of your vase is similar to blue glazed vases which while they did appear in the late 18th century, were more prolific in the later Jiaqing (1796 to 1820) and Daoguang reigns (1820 to 1850).

That crackled grey/blue glaze in my opinion is early 19th century.

Sorry Lee, but if you want to post such assertive statements, you need to be on firmer ground.

Regards
Tony

This hexagonal vase dates to the Kangxi early Yongzheng period. The shape is less elongated and less bulbous than the Qianlong and later pieces. The vase is also constructed in 2 pieces and luted together typical of the earlier period. The crackle celadon like glaze is typical of the period and one can see that in the Vemeer langyao vase on the Teadust gallery. They have some very nice pieces and discuss the contruction and features of ever aspect great website for ceramic enthusiasts.

Tony, I don't know if you know much about Chinese ceramics or langyao, from the comments you just posted. This is an extract from the book Chinese Ceramics by He Li a very famous author of ceramics and a once curator of the palace museum. Publised by Thames and Hudson. This is a book worth buying for any ceramic collector. She has been quoted by Far Eastern Economic Review Break new ground in a dynamic field of study..... immensely learned. An extract from the book. Page 316

picture 550 Bottle, porcelain with ox- blood glaze. Qing, Kangxi period (1662-1722), jiangxi (jiangdouhong) H37.1cm. Also known as sang de boeuf or langyaohong ("lang-klin red"), this glaze was a high fired, copper red of the lang kiln. Used mostly on decorative bottles or vases, the glaze was applied to the vessel either once or twice. The bold red glaze has a crackled glassy surface, and reveals a straw color around the mouth where the glaze is thinner, while the thick drips form at the foot. The drip were either left as they formed or were TRIMMED TO PRODUCE A FLAT EDGE. The majority of such wares bear no reign- marks, though some have characters symbolizing happiness and logevity or Xuende reign-mark.

Sorry to say Tony but I find that you have been irresponsible to miss inform the audience that I was incorrect while in actual fact you were.

I should have mentioned that on page 204 of my book, Allen's Authentication of Later Chinese Porcelain (now out of print), I illustrate a similar sang de boeuf bottle vase to that posted by Toan. This vase was vetted by Lei Rui Chun, then deputy director of the Jingdezhen museum, and ascribed to the 4th quarter of the 19th century.

Lee, I wish you would read some of the early Western texts by the likes of Bushell and Hobson, and particularly Scherzer & Vogt. Yours is a common misconception among Chinese collectors and dealers.

Tony, there is no misconception here. We are dealing with guan yao not ming yao. Only flambe, langyao and other copper red glazes pieces have feet that are sometimes trimmed. If you get any other glaze, peach blossom, blue and white or famille rose vase that have trimmed feet they will date to late 19th century. Lanygyao, copper red and flambe are exceptions due to fluidity of high fired copper glaze.

Lee, I do not agree. This vase of yours is not guanyao (Imperial), and has no reign mark.
With the exception of the flambe glazes, if langyao or other copper red glazes overrun the footrim, they are almost undoubtedely late 19th century or later. As with every rule in Chinese porcelain, there will be an odd exception.
Please read the authors I suggested.

Hi Tony, I never mention that piece is imperial, only to point out it is of better quality, probably fit for a temple of an official's home. From your comments I have read I, douth you have any experience with Guan yao of the 18th century. You seems to have this idea that all 18th century pieces have red glaze that run to the foot and their base is untrimmed. Quite the contrary the bad quality ming yao that you are familiar with have their feet untrimmed, with blops of glaze every where but the good quality earlier pieces have their feet trimmed, their base glazed and their mouth glazed. Yes there are pieces where the glaze runs right to the edge of the feet untrimmed but, these are usually Qianlong period pieces with a mark. It is very rare to get Kangxi pieces with a imperial mark. As quoted by He Li the majority of such wears bear no reign mark. He Li was trained at the Palace museum, Beijing, and the Idemitsu Museum, Tokyo, two of the world's major repositories of Chinese ceramics. After graduating in Art History from the University of Kansas she was the associate curator of the ASIAN Art Museum of San Francisco. All these museums, which I have visited have an extensive collection of monochrome ceramics. Sorry to say Tony, but I trust her and other respected ceramic expert's and museum curators, than your book or you.

Dear all
I have tried to take better photo to show the glaze crackles
hope it is of help

sorry wrong place
I meant to post it on the "flambe" topic

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