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Subject:Translation
Posted By: David Sun, Jul 15, 2018 IP: 88.11.188.211

I posted a question a while back with no reply. I think I went array with the question so apologies for that. So, if someone could tell me what these seals say I would be eternally grateful. Would it be possible that they are from an Edo panel? I've got to be careful but then again, haven't we all. Thanks in advance. D



Subject:Re: Translation
Posted By: David Mon, Jul 16, 2018

Update on sig. Found a picture on an auction site that looks too similar for comfort. It is marked correctly as a repro. Since this image is repro it could just mean the one I am looking at is the same. A repro: Text reads

Hand painted hanging scroll - Signed 'Ganku' 岸駒 - (Reproduction) - "Tiger" - Japan - Late 19th century(Meiji period) w/box





Subject:Re: Translation
Posted By: rat Wed, Jul 18, 2018

Similar, but not the same tiger. It's possible your artist is basing his tiger on the original that the second image reproduces (or, more of a stretch, that your tiger is an original on which the original in the second image is based). Paintings of tigers were pretty numerous in both Korea and Japan. The seals are a bit too stylized for me to read in their entirety. I. Nagy or someone with more time than I happen to have today may help you out

Subject:Re: Translation
Posted By: David Wed, Jul 18, 2018

Thanks Rat.
I hope I. Nagy is about. I could do with his guidance. Best wishes All. D

Subject:Re: Translation
Posted By: David Wed, Jul 18, 2018

Supplement:
The entry that is interesting is "Ganku".
I cannot tell from the seal although the quality of the work looking close in is exceptional. Doesn't mean its not a repro though so I'm very worried. This blows my budget for the whole year.
Text follows:-

""The entry building contains a Tiger Room with images said to have been painted by Kanō Eitoku 狩野 永徳 (1543–1590), Bamboo Room with Edo wood-block prints, and Peacock Room with pictures by Ganku 岸駒 (1749/56–1839). The main temple hall (Great Shoin) dates from the early Edo period, and is now listed as an Important Cultural Property. It contains a Waterfall Room with slides by Kanō Tan'yū 狩野探幽"".

Subject:Re: Translation
Posted By: David Fri, Jul 20, 2018

I now don't believe its any of above. None of the characters match anything. I'm really lost. For all I know it could all say, "free can of oil with every full tank of super".

Subject:Re: Translation
Posted By: I.Nagy Sat, Jul 21, 2018

The reading of seals did cause some headaches to me. The first character of the name seal still remains an enigma.
I read it,
 ..田耕南 - ..ta(da) Kōnan
The eproblem is that I can not find a painter in the literature or on the net whose name fits to the aboves.
Tentatively, I read the leisure seal,
壽嶊 -Jusai or
壽嶄 - Juzan    Either approx. Outstanding longevity (The place of 山 radical is interchangeable)
Later if I find the right reading I will let it you know.

With regards,
I.Nagy

Subject:Re: Translation
Posted By: David Mon, Jul 23, 2018

Thanks I.Nagy
If the seal ends up being unreadable how would that fit in with a panel converted to a scroll sometime in the late 19th or earlier 20th century. Perhaps another element of the panel had the correct artist seals and these shown above were spuriously added later. Just seems odd that whoever it was would make them so hard to read.
Just like a piece of porcelain I may have to ignore the seals and try to appraise the work for what it is, taking into account the style, mood, detail, and general character of a Japanese representation of a tiger in the late Edo period. I can compare with a known Repro as you see above. They are very different. I then have to take the risk or not. Its a tough call as I don't have the scroll in front of me. My hunch is a late Edo piece, and perhaps now anonymous.
Thanks for your help

Subject:Re: Translation
Posted By: I.Nagy Wed, Jul 25, 2018

I got the knack of the first missing character.
It is a mixture of seal and calligraphic script,
舛  - Masu   in full
舛田耕南  - Masuda Kōnan or
舛田耕常  -  Masuda Kōjō
My hunch is the same about the dating
Seemingly a forgotten artist. Now, until the end of October I am away from Japan, so I can rely only on my limited personal library and the net. After returning I'll check it in better stocked Japanese libraries.

With regards,
I.Nagy

Subject:Re: Translation
Posted By: David Thu, Jul 26, 2018

Dear I. Nagy
Thanks so much for this news. There is a small glimmer of hope. The owner got back to me regarding their take on the seals and their answer follows. I was a little dissapointed that they couldn't clarify further. I would of thought they would have been able. Then again these look fairly archaic characters and as you mention, quite a difficult thing to read.
Text following:
""These seales are peronal seals, a person may choose charachets for the visual look and play with the possible meaning of the words and sounds. This seal is using arcaic Chinese characters and it looks like it to have been a stone seal.
I have ask around and nowone can make sence of the meaning, sorry.
You need a scolar to read it.
100% Japanese"".

There are several very forgiveable typos but I have left their text untouched.
Regards
D

Subject:Re: Translation
Posted By: David Sat, Jul 28, 2018

Thanks so much I. Nagy.
Best wishes. D


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