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I have this imperial style huanghuali side table that has been inlaid with canton enamel. According to some experts it is Huanghuali and according to others it is Hongmu because it was lacquered before but they all agree it is 19th century and unusual in design.

I said 100% Hongmu. I have some friends calling it Huanghuali too....

Thanks KK for your opinion. I thought it is a little too light in color and the grains are too defined to be Hongmu? I thought hongmu looks more like the other piece I posted- table cabinet.

There are many type of Hongmu. I don't think there is any argument about it. But how many specie of huanghuali they use in the old days. That is a one million dollars question. there are a few view points on this subject. If you search on huanghuali in Chinese you will find many of these discussion.

KK

I thought light colored hongmu looks like these pics

More pics

The table is not made from light colored hongmu (also called Bai Shuanji). Sorry, I don't see huanghuali here. This is definitely not a huanghuali design.

here is a huaghuali pic.

Thanks KK. I think you are right it could be Hongmu. At least the Christie's specialist in HK thought the same. Anyway that is a nice Ming huanghuali scholar's table chest you got there. They are quite expensive these days around 100,000 HKDs.

This is definitely "Huali" though NOT "huanghuali."

Note that rosewood and huali are offshoots of the same species and thus the confusion stems from that.

Lee
You get good eyes! Yes it is a 17th Century scholar's table chest.

A other wood that is easliy confused with huanghuali is "yellow shuanji" This is a recent term some dealers used nowadays in China, so it probably can't find in book yet. One good indicator many collectors used is "Ming style". A authentic huanghuli piece should be done in simply Ming style design not the ornate 19th century design as your table. ON the other hand, a period 18-16th century piece in simple elegant Ming Style, the definition of huanghuali can be a little loser, because craftsmen in the old day never saw the huanghuali trees and they identified the wood by it's colors and wood grain and they have no ideas what the huanghuali tree look like. This is why some time a period piece was sometimes made with mixed woods. I personal believed that we can't used today's huanhuali idea to define the Ming Huanhuali. I know many collector share this concept in my antique friend circle.

I don't think it will allow me to link to the photo (we have hotlinking disabled on our site) but have a look at these wood samples here and see how this effects the conversation. Click on the high res images...

If it doesn't allow you the full sized images, then here are the direct links:

http://www.antique-chinese-furniture.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/chinese_furniture_asia_hardwoods.jpg

http://www.antique-chinese-furniture.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/chinese_furniture_hardwoods_b.jpg

Some spots look very heali like, and in others "looks like either "small leaf tan" or old rosewood" to me, but hard to say as the flash also distorts things...

URL Title :Exotic hardwoods used in chinese furniture

Hello: I like this table. Please let me know your price if you like to sell it. Thank you!

is it o.k. to use beeswax to polish an old piece?
i recently bought and old chest/low cabinet(i don't know exactly what to describe it as) that looks like the huanghuali type wood. i'm new to finding this site and there are several things i own i'd like to post pics and ask questions about but right now i don't want to use the wax and it turn out to be the wrong thing to have done.

is it o.k. to use beeswax to polish an old piece?
i recently bought and old chest/low cabinet(i don't know exactly what to describe it as) that looks like the huanghuali type wood. i'm new to finding this site and there are several things i own i'd like to post pics and ask questions about but right now i don't want to use the wax and it turn out to be the wrong thing to have done.

Hi John, I polish my furniture with linseed oil. Bee wax are used by some dealers but they can cause accumulation of wax if used too often. Linseed oil on a soft rag is often used by most collectors, once every 6 months or so to bring out the grain after dusting. Hi Elaine thanks for your interest , sorry the piece is not currently for sell.

oh dear oh dear, no no no no... please!
don't do that.
not linseed oil, it will kill it.
these oils never dry and actually seal the timber, protecting it. If you feel the wax too hard and labor intensive, use clear beeswax and thin it out with white spirit. It will go on in the same way as oil, and not build up into the corners if you don't like that. A bit odd really, most of us love a good patina, but it's your prerogative if you don't want it there. Using linseed oil is a fatal mistake. Oils seep into the body of the timber, and do not stop impurities from being dragged down into the pores with it, and forms crystals that clog the pores forever. After a while you will begin to see big blotches in the wood. Once they are in there, it is tremendously difficult to get them out without destroying the original surface.
Please take my advice, you are in the long run not going to regret it, I can assure you. If you don't like the way wax builds up into the corners, just wait and see how much you are going to dislike the oil when it crystals form a tacky crackled residue in those areas you are trying to protect.

To me, this is hongmu, but of very nice quality. Such veined hongmu was considered highly in the past and pieces of good manufacture and good design of such quality wood (even if not as rare as HHL or zitan) are still today much prized by some collectors.
I personally do not like the too static design, but this is a decent quite old piece.

Phil

PS: Definitely not huanghuali.

Is this imperial Huanghuali
Size is 59 x 41 x 41 cm

Hello.

This is a flower stand, not an incense stand.
This is Japanese, not Chinese.
This is a Meiji (probably late) piece for decoration, not an imperial piece of the highest standards.

This is, according to a Japanese designation, made of "karaki" ("chinese wood" = a wood of initial Chinese origin), not Huanghuali. Karaki comprises many types of wood, among which different types of rosewood (matching the Chinese Hongmu), but also ironwood (that some consider similar to Tielimu; not me) and other woods. I have yet to better understand what shitan means in Japanese terms, because many shitan pieces are indeed very dark (almost black) wooden objects that are often not tagged karaki. They are not matching Chinese Zitan in any way, but would more correspond to dark kinds of Hongmu in my humble opinion. Maybe Japanese do only confuse other woods with what they hope is Zitan and thus tag them shitan (?). Longan wood is much sought after in Japan too and is not tagged karaki there, even if most of the trees seem to have grown in the coastal regions of the Fujian province or Taiwan.

The dragon is Japanese in design, not Chinese, and it even is quite representative of Meiji pieces. I have seen some objects tagged "made in US occupied Japan" that were displaying what I consider very similar examples of dragons. I myself have a small metal box with this inscription and three dragons on it (the box is of no real value - I acquired it in a local fleemarket for 1 Swiss frank).

The design of the legs, the losange-oriented square plank at the bottom, its grooved sides and finish reproduced on top, the carved decorations, the proportions, the probable height (I would say near 50cm, rather than the usual 80-85cm for a Chinese incense stand) and probably the joinery are indications to what I here conclude.

A nice decorative piece nonetheless.

Phil

PS: We have to remember that Japanese craftsmen have created many objects that are directly or indirectly inspired by Chinese art. When it comes to stands (for incense, for bonzai, for displaying vases in the tokonoma during tea, etc.), examples are clearly showing many Chinese objects were brought to Japan and were highly regarded to in the end be copied (with Chinese monks, trade through the Philippines, etc.). Many Japanese "scroll stands" rival with their Chinese counterparts. Most of them are made of karaki (=Hongmu). I sometimes wonder how many of such stands were once considered Chinese wrongly.

My apologies, I hadn't seen the dimensions were given.
A little higher than I expected, but still in the appropriate range for my conclusions to be correct.

Whether it may or may not have had lacquer on it at some stage or not hardly the point. Many pieces were lacquered in the 50's to disguise their true worth. It certainly isn't a softwood, is it. undoubtedly a high density hardwood, more just a question as to whether a rare and precious Asian species hardwood associated with a particular class of original owner, or a less expensive imported generic designated for less sophisticated market. Was it expensive to produce, or is it made for a wider audience. 19thC yes, but look at it. What an absolutely marvelous figure to this huge one piece top. Now ask yourself the question will any timber merchant in their right mind really be putting this plank on the bargain heap, especially considering there is a ready market for it all along the Coramandel coast; species is getting rarer and rarer; Europeans are buying it by the shipload; etc; etc..
What would you do, give it away?
Ormoisa heynri?
no chance.

Hi,have you sold this table or you still keep it? I'm very interested in it.Can you leave me your email address so that I can contact with you? Thanks!

Which table is talking about. Is it the "Japanese table" as you'm interested in.
If Yes, I am interested in selling at the right price.
best greetings
Torben

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