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I wonder how many of you have been following the recent sales of Joanies_house_of_treasures on eBay.

The prices she is getting are absolutely staggering, right across the Chinese antique board; porcelain, jade, cloisonne etc. There are a few 19th century pieces, but most appear to be Republic period or later, some in my opinion from the 1980's.

The presumably predominantly Chinese buyers have simply gone into a frenzy that in my opinion borders on rash stupidity, given that the vast majority of mainland Chinese collectors have never seen a real antique porcelain (outside a museum), let alone handled one. They must be buying by comparing the photos in the auction catalogue books which were published in China a few years ago.

eBay only shows these completed listings for 15 days, so if you want to check them out I would be quick.

I am interested to hear others views, as this bubble must surely burst.
Regards
Tony

1) Some have more money than sense.

2) Major auction houses not selling middle market goods now, so other vendors have a market.

3) Have been many dealers get asociates bid on items, others never know if an actual sale took place. Actual items may or may not be sold privately if dealer really selling. This can be selective to make others interested think there is high market for some things, some sales may be genuinely expensive.

4) Buyer ignorance enthusiasm come and go in phase for type of item. Example USA mass-made cheap pottery sell in 1980s for special-design art pottery prices. Was Chinese mark/period bubble 1980s-1990s that elevated prices in middle market and made imitations worthwhile to make. Various type go in/out popularity like recent enthusiasm for gaudy Kyoto export wares.

Good luck,
Cal

I've been noticing some of these sales since December and wondering if the feeding frenzy may have something to do with concern over inflation in China and the possibility of tightened access to foreign exchange there.

It's difficult to say whether some sellers are unaware of porcelain dates or if they're just trying to supply the demand in the Chinese market for some of the better decorated and reign-marked pieces made in the fourth quarter of the 20th century. That kind of stuff definitely has been selling like hotcakes for repatriation to China recently. It could simply be that most of it was made for export as well as for sale in "friendship" stores to foreign visitors, often at huge prices. Now it may have "forbidden fruit" appeal to some.

I'd be afraid to guess when this might end. It almost seems like everything porcelain that glitters is gold on the Mainland these days.

Cheers,

Bill H.

Certainly interesting times. Prices are indeed going through the roof especially on bronze censers and porcelain. However the prices of Japanese items are mostly stagnant. My guess is that items from the major auction houses have gotten so high that middle level buyers that normally would have purchased from the main auction houses were basically forced to other avenues; like eBay. The interesting thing I find it that good Republic items have now become more expensive than Qing period items. Especially signed plaques. Another reason why bidding has become so extreme is that buyers are almost desperate to get good items; PLUS the notion that I don't want others to get that item that I want.

You also have to take into account sabotage bidding where a throw away account is created in order to put a bid that is so ridiculously high that they are guaranteed to win the auction, and they have no intention of paying for it. This is done by people who do not have a large enough budget to actually purchase the item but cannot bring themselves to allow others to outbid them and get the item. A if I can't have it, neither can you behavior. This is why many times you see an item that was won for a very high price being re-listed again. Bidding has gotten so competitive that many bidders don't even try to wait for an auction to finish and crack a private deal with the seller and end the auction early. It's very annoying when you can't even get the chance to bid. Of course if an good item comes on for sale that the seller has no idea what the item is, there is practically no chance for that auction to end in it's stated time with the seller being bombarded by messages to make a direct sale. Like a few weeks ago when a Qianlong M&P Doucai ogee shaped bowl was offered with a generic description of Chinese vintage bowl, it didn't last for 48 hours before the 1 week auction was terminated when the seller made a BUY It Now direct sale to someone for US$150. Someone was laughing. Maybe both parties were. One much louder than the other.

As for this seller Joanies_house_of_treasures, I find most of her offerings are okey when it comes to items I know about. As for items I have little knowledge about I am in no position to say. There are however a few items that I would rather not touch. A simple modern decorative bowl like the one with the hidden red dragon design which can be bought in a multitude of tourist souvenir shops all over China selling for US$5,400 is quite eye pooping indeed! But the seller was not wrong here. She never mentioned the age of the item at all. Simply described its physical appearance. It was the bidders that went wild. Remember when it comes to eBay, it is the bidders that set the value of the item, not the seller.

Can this be sustained? I actually think it can! Bidders now will evolve, learn more and up their ante if you will and eventually go for larger things when they feel more comfortable. In return, new comers will take their place. In China newly rich are being made all the time and they will want to spend.

Perhaps it is good time to start selling some of one's personal collection which you purchased before things went crazy. How about it Mr. Allen? I am personally planning to sell part of my collection after Chinese New Year and am very curious to see what will happen. I think I will start with teapots first although I know that category has not become the hottest in the market.

I do agree with you however, in the case of Joanies' online shop, I can only blame the lack of knowledge of the buyers.
Experience gives you knowledge.

As an antiquee dealer, the only key to success is knowledge.
The bubble won't burst before a long time though, simply because cheap things will remain cheap and that the most expensive treasures have passed very harsh tests (well, most of them).
And most of the millionaires have what we call, an art manager.

Anyway, my only tip to all of you: don't buy anything unless you're sure of it. Or if it's really cheap and you want to have a try. Or if you love it for your own pleasure. ;)

a fine way to recycle their trade surplus if you ask me!

Hi Tony,
you`re not the only one to notice this, it`s produced quite a bit of interest from several collectors. At first there were suspicions of shill bidding due to the crazy prices for some very dubious pieces but most seem to have reached the same conclusions as you that this is a result of newly rich Chinese bidders with no experience of genuine Chinese antiques.
It`s most certainly a bubble & so should burst, there`s also the problem that at least some of these buyers will get their purchases correctly appraised & then realise they`ve bought at best overpriced 19thC wares or, worse than that complete fakes.

I am interested in seeing this unfold.

Phil.

i should sell chinese kungfu movies to china, and
i think it would sell for more than porcelain tai-bo's. but kungfu movies have no bubbles.


ddennis

Hello,

I heard this term "bubble" since the early 2.000 and every westerner said it will burst soon.

Some 9 years later prices have multiply by 8 for real estate etc... and still going up.

No, the bubble is not ready to burst.

There is not enough supply here for luxury products, expensive antiques etc...

It's a question of "face" as they say here.

Happy New year !

I just looked at Joannies completed listings. What a joke!
Below is a dish she sold for 380.00

PART OF LARGE & IMPORTANT ASIAN ARTS ESTATE COLL. N/Rs!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18TH CHINESE QIANLONG FAMILLE ROSE SPOON REST DISH TRAY



Up for auction is a Large and Important Asian Arts Estate Collection. The Collection is the Finest I have personally seen, with some Truly Amazing Museum Quality examples. I am sure many of the pieces listed are Very Rare, and Very Desirable finds. But as I have been instructed by the Estate the collection is to be sold with NO RESERVES, as my auctions have run for over 8 years online. I do not think you will see another untouched Large Asian Arts Collection like this come up for auction any time soon, and with No Reserves I am sure there will be some great deals to be had. I hope you find the collection as interesting as I do, it has been a Real Pleasure for me handling so many Great and Rare period examples.

I don't know about being a "joke". Joanie has been at this a long time and her results and feedback speak for themselves. With multi-million dollars each year of sales I think she is the only one laughing! I agree some descriptions may be over the top and in some regards silly or unorthodox. At the end of the day she has great and interesting gear and is a mastermind of no reserve online auctions.

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