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Subject:$150 ming vase
Posted By: LEE Sun, Nov 27, 2011 IP: 203.122.240.165

Late ming- transitional vase from same estate.







Subject:Re: $150 ming vase
Posted By: LEE Mon, Nov 28, 2011

more pics







Subject:Re:Not a Ming vase
Posted By: Anthony J Allen Mon, Nov 28, 2011

Hi Lee,
This type of vase is commonly known in the West as Rolwagen, and was not uncommon in the transitional period between the Ming ang Qing dynasties.
Your example, however, has a browned rim, which I associate with the post-fritting problems of the Kanxi export wares; dating your vase in my opinion to later in the 18th century.
I must warn readers that if you Google Rolwagen you may find that there are several viruses attacking the links that come up; notably the teadust site. So make sure you have your Norton or other antivirus programmes set at maximum.

Regards
Tony

Subject:Re: Re:Not a Ming vase
Posted By: LEE Mon, Nov 28, 2011

Hi Tony, Thanks for your expertise. i suspect you are right it is early Qing not Ming. I bough it from an estate with the other pieces. This one has some surface wear and stain but luckily no cracks or repairs. The blue is very pretty and deep, under the very bubbly glaze.

Subject:Re: Re:Not a Ming vase
Posted By: Anthony J Allen Tue, Nov 29, 2011

Sorry, that should have read post-Kangxi, after the Chinese reign period from 1662 to 1722

Subject:It's transitional ok
Posted By: LEE Fri, Dec 02, 2011

Hi Tony, sorry to say you are wrong with the assumption on the brown glaze on the rim is latter than Kangxi. I have confirm that the piece is transitional from another expert it is transitional / ming and heres the proof christies lot 1328 / sale2339 , lot 481/3949 all have cafe aulit glaze on mouth rim. Actually lot 481/3949 is very similar in size and design to mine.

Subject:Re: It's transitional ok
Posted By: LEE Sun, Dec 04, 2011

Hi Tony here's the evidence. You can probably spot another 20 odd lots of transitional porcelain with brown color on the mouth rim at major auction house website. I am sure their specialist are well qualified and are familiar with the hundreds of pieces that they have gone through. These photos are taken from Christies.com.





Subject:Re: It's transitional ok
Posted By: Anthony J Allen Mon, Dec 05, 2011

Hi Lee,
The problem with book learning, as distinct from hands on experience, and your blind acceptance from a photograph is that you don't see the differences. The shape is different, the colors are different, there is not the wash of colors found in the earlier pieces, and your vase has the foot rim turned off. The painting of your vase is just not alive.

Regards
Tony

Subject:Re: It's transitional ok
Posted By: br Sun, Oct 05, 2014

"Hi Lee,
The problem with book learning, as distinct from hands on experience, and your blind acceptance from a photograph is that you don't see the differences. The shape is different, the colors are different, there is not the wash of colors found in the earlier pieces, and your vase has the foot rim turned off. The painting of your vase is just not alive.

Regards
Tony "


ha, why so down on the vase? he merely pointed to that example as it disproves your theory that the brown rim excludes it from being period.. on what grounds does the foot rim being cut make it not a period piece also? don't get me wrong, i am interested in any information if this is true

Subject:Re: It's transitional ok
Posted By: LEE Tue, Oct 07, 2014

Hi Br, thanks for your fair dinkum comment. This piece is indeed of the Transtional period after being checked again by other collectors and scholars of the subject. The brown glaze on the rim is common in the transitional as well as the shunzi- kangxi period. The foot trimming prior to firing is common both in the Kangxi and transitional period blue and white but not the glaze trimming which Tony has mistaken. I have found similar foot in other pieces of transitional and kangxi vases at reputable auction houses. These days some auction houses will show you the base of the item on the internet if you ask for the condition report.


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