Asianart.com | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries

Five supporting pin spots are under its bottom. Scales shape aging glace cracks like the snow can be seen. Most first class Chinese ware museum would like to have one piece in thier collection portfolio.

Lovely.

Well - It has been estimated by the scholars that there are no more than 30 intact pieces of ru ware ceramics from the song dynasty left in the whole world today. It is like the holy grail of song ceramics. But at least you've got something that can actually be tested scientifically. Or is the piece backed by a solid and provable provnance?

Don't be misled by the Red China Government. The communist never tell people the truth is their general government practice as to survive. When you have gone to the China, you will find the China is so big. How dare they said only less than 100 pieces on earth. Do you know the number of Chinese population and the size of country boundary. I think it would be more than twenty times of England 3 islands.

The number of origin of ru-ware so far is well believed to be more than the known and excavated sites. Before World War II, not too many people knew that such piece porcelain is ru-ware owning to the education level and the information sharing system was so primary. According to the local market in the Red China, it would be more than 1000 pieces on earth. This one was inherited from my passed away mother via my grandfather.

The Red China Scholars are all controlled by the Red China Government. They all lie to the world and so, such genius pieces would be valueless. They will try their best to rob from its people and the owner will be put into the mental hospital Once the owner become a mental patient, no one will believe his/her story. Those innocent people post the photos to the forum of ancient porcelain in Red China, the post will be locked and the IP address will be found and the secret agents will action. I think I would be the next victim, hoping not.

The genius ru-ware has more than 1000 years old. The bubbles of the glace under 100 times magnification can be seen that the shape of outer ring of the bubble would be distorted, vague and some of the bubbles would be penetrated by the dirt. More bubbles distorted and got dirty inside means it is very old. On the other hand, the glaze will appear some crystals like the snow, one lying on the other. Not just ru-ware but other aged porcelain will have such symptoms. The material of the body of ru-ware might be in grey color. A decorated pestering layer in white color can be observed under the glaze at the item made in Song Dynasty or before.

Which three islands would those be, HKBoy? Shamland, Bulshittica and Madie-Uppie, no doubt. For your information China is seventy times the size of England.

And you'd know more about mental patients not being believed than me.

JLim

Dear Corey

I thought there were no more than about ten intact Ru pieces and the rest were damaged (but still priceless?)

At any rate, I don't think this *thing* even deserves the name of "fake". In what way is this ludicrously primitive and crude object, with its snot-like glaze, even supposed to resemble the majesty of real Ru-ware porcelain??

Truly, with some collectors, the spirit is all too willing but the flesh is all too weak.

Rgds
JLim

Well said JLim.

It is amazing HKBoy said in his other message:
http://www.asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=75687

"Unfortunately, the auction company will not take risk for those item that has not previous auction record, to go auction."

What he said was a truckload of hogwash because if his piece is indeed genuine and worth $10M dollars, then no auction house will be stupid enough to turn it down,with or without provenances.

Remember this story about somebody who bought a North Song Ding bowl for $3 and Sotheby’s auctioning it off for 2.2M dollars:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lynndouglass/2013/03/20/rare-chinese-bowl-bought-for-3-sells-for-over-2-million-at-auction/

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/bowl-bought-3-sells-2-2-million-article-1.1293513

You don't see Sotheby's turned it down for not having any provenances, do you?

Another real story is this lady inherited three genuine QingLong jade pieces from her father who brought them back from China a while ago. They were valued about 1M and sold for half a million dollars (during the last recession around 2008). There were also no provenances for them.

In this article:

http://www.blouinartinfo.com/news/story/797653/27-million-dish-from-the-fabled-ru-kilns-smashes-song-dynasty

"The sale record for Song Dynasty porcelain was smashed at Sotheby’s Hong Kong today when a 900-year-old brush washer from the Dynasty’s fabled Ru kilns sold for HK$208 million (US$26.7 million), more than trebling the previous record for Song ceramics of $8.641 million, set back in 2008. Ru ware is extremely rare, with only 79 examples known to exist today. The record-making dish is one of only seven Ru wares held in private hands and was consigned to Sotheby’s from a collector in Japan. Sotheby’s head of Chinese Ceramics and Works of Art Nicolas Chow confessed before the sale to ARTINFO China that he did not anticipate he would ever handle such an important piece again in his career."

Now you have to forgive me for not really knowing how to authenticate a piece of genuine (not genius like HKBoy said) Ru Ware, but using common sense, if his piece posted here is indeed authentic or looks good enough to be a genuine Ru ware, do you think all these auction houses reps will not be waiting outside his house trying to get a chance to just examine it and auction it off for him?

The same article says,
"When Sotheby’s toured the dish to mainland China last month as part of their pre-sale roadshow they were forced to remove it from public exhibition after it drew crowds so huge that there were fears for the piece’s safety."

Also, I took a look at the genuine ru dish posted in this article (see picture), the glaze on it is just breath taking and nothing like that shown on the "genius" ru-ware piece posted by this HKboy here. Believe or not, when I was much younger, I actually took ceramic classes with my wife (before our marriage), I truly understand how difficult it was to just put glaze on a piece. You never know what the final color or glaze of the finished product will look like. The unique cobalt blue color shown on many German made beer steins were so difficult to copy, a lot of fake Japanese beer steins just did not look right with their blue colors. You can immediately tell a fake German beer stein from a genuine one just by their blue colors alone.

Unless everything HKBoy said about the PRC government was based on his real personal experience, otherwise everything he said was purely "hearsay" and since freedom of speech is not necessarily guaranteed in a lot of countries, any one who defamed his/her own government does need to be very careful. One should never say anything without understanding its consequence. No pun intended. Secondly, I really do not know where he got his other "knowledge" regarding the authentication of genuine ru-wares. If he derived all his knowledge regarding ru-wars from his own collecting experiences, from examining his own pieces or from those cheaply printed "expert" books bought in Hong Kong, just like his knowledge regarding jade carvings, then I am afraid all his knowledge on either jade or ceramic is only knowledge being made up by a self-imagined genius.

So far we have not heard from some of the REAL experts from this forum regarding any of his pieces,to me that may mean BAD news.

In short, it may be better for HKBoy to really spend some time in studying than just bragging, if he truly loves what he collects. Again, no disrespect intended.

Super

Thank you for your valuable opinion. Comment on poor fake or not is never mine to me.

The so call scholars said that only less than 100 pieces ru-ware on earth is totally not a truth. They just calculated those in the museums and owned by tiny collectors. It is the marketing strategy and totally hearsay to withhold the prices upward.

Ru-ware were not just used by the emperor but the citizen as well in the earlier period. The sky blue and yellow color are the patent of the emperor. However, before the emperor adopted ru-ware as the patent supplies for the palace, ru-ware was the stuff used by normal citizen but the workmanship was not as better as than the royal patent.

Do you know porcelain with age more than 1000 years will have crystal presented under the glaze. Next time I will post a picture under a 500 time microscope for your study then you will have better understanding on what is antique porcelain made in Song Dynasty. The fake one made nowadays or after Ming Dynasty will have no such feature.

Ru-ware will have features such as: (1) crystal glaze, (2) vague bubbles and or deformed bubbles, (3) bubbles will difficult be observed just like no bubbles at all on the surface as the bubbles are all under the dumb gaze surface, (4) absorb water very fast and dry out very fast due to 1000 years aging, 5) incense gray color tire body, (6) three or five sesame pin like break points, (7) golden powder under the glaze (not too many ru-ware will have such feature), (8) contraction points on the glaze (most important one as most ru-ware will have such feature), (9) light shadow at the edge of mouth due to contraction of high density glaze, (10) the glaze is made of agate and so it may reflect the light and generate pink color, (11) The density of glaze is much higher than that of all other dynasty and will result in contraction spots under heating, (l2) the density of tire is low and the weight is light, (13) the thickness of body is much thinner than that of other dynasties (at around 1mm~1.5mm), (14) some of them will have stencil marks (甲,乙,丙,奉華,奉趙,name of palace) etc,(15) break-lines texture or fish scale texture or plain no texture, (16) some will have engraving .

Ru-ware will have seven colors e.g. dark green (made in temperature above 1200C), duck egg green (at 1000C~1200C, after rain sky blue (in between 900C~1100C) , milky moon ( below 900C). Other colors are pink, tea golden, black golden, yellow, as recorded by the Ming Dynasty researchers.

Yellow color and sky blue color were patent of the emperor except those ru-ware was awarded by the emperor.

Crystal glaze is the penetration of earth's alkaline substance and under aging effect then become crystal in the glaze. It may present in a form of rhyolitic flow marks or pins like a snow crystal.

Eastern people's scientific technology and piano playing skills are just a baby as comparing with Eastern people. In turn, Western people's knowledge on antique porcelain is just a beginner. It is a fact, no need to argue at all.

If you do not agree with me, just go to the Great British Museum to book an appointment to take an hand-on close look on the ru-ware, on every Wednesday. Free of charge. Remember to bring with your 500 times electronic microscope to take pictures.

Attached is one more my collection for your study.

I am afraid this is a very poor fake...

Dear JLim,

Allright - gotta eat my words then. I was quoting by memory from a book that was printed in 73. It says "Until now there are only about thirty known pieces of this ware in existance and the largest collection is in the Parcival David foundation, London." My apologies!

By checking german wikipedia I now learn that there are now app. 55 known pieces.

Where did to get the information of 10 intact pieces, if I may ask.

Dear Corey

Actually, you may be closer to the truth. I just remember that the dozen or so pieces was quoted in the old "Chinese Glazes" book by Nigel Wood, and then I heard that a precious stash of Ru Ware was found in China later on (I mean since the year 2000).

I understand, though, that all the pieces rediscovered in China were damaged when found - kiln refuse - and come to think of it most of the Percival David examples were damaged too.

Rgds
JLim

I guess HKboy sold his RU and now enjoying his millions...no longer responding..haha.

Asianart.com | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries |