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Subject:Empress dowager Ci'an and emperor Guangxu
Posted By: LEE Wed, Jul 16, 2014 IP: 203.122.240.165

This portrait of the 19th century appears to be that of regent empress dowager Ci'an and boy emperor Guangxu. Both Empress Ci'an and Cixi were consorts of emperor Jiafeng. They became regent to emperor Tongzhi and than to emperor Guanghxu. Empress Ci'an was regent along side Cixi after Tongzhi's death in 1875 to emperor Guangxu whom ascended to the throne at the age of 4y.o. This portrait was drawn when the emperor was about 8 or 9 and empress Ci'an was in her 40s probably in the 1880- 1881, just before Cian's death from a stroke. this portrait is from a californian collection. unfortunately it was framed and stuck to board in 1986 when it was framed.







Subject:Re: Empress dowager Ci'an and emperor Guangxu
Posted By: LEE Thu, Jul 17, 2014

we cut the younger Cian face from the palace museum portrait and paste it on the older dian portrait for a comparison.





Subject:Re: Empress dowager Ci'an and emperor Guangxu
Posted By: LEE Fri, Jul 18, 2014

The white ruyi placed on the side table must be a wedding gift from emperor Jiafeng, a gift for first rank empresses. The 9 y.o Guangxu is busy playing with the incense burner a common subject in Qing dynasty informal imperial family paintings. The silk analysis of the painting shows a two vertical threads of wrap to one horizontal weave tread, typical of silk painting weave from the song dynasty to the end of the 19th century. Silk weave after this period is one vertical to one horizontal, when machines replace traditional loom weaving methods. This indicates that the painting is not a republic replica.







Subject:Re: Empress dowager Ci'an and emperor Guangxu
Posted By: LEE Fri, Jul 18, 2014

The empress wear a brown chifu that is reserved for the immediate royal family like prince and princesses. The brown chifu is worn here because of the presence of boy emperor Guangxu wearing a informal blue chifu. This is not to indicate her as a ruler but a regent for the boy emperor and a relative of the emperor. The blue winter coat has brown otter fur collar and sleeves . A fur preferred by the royal family.



Subject:Re: Empress dowager Ci'an and emperor Guangxu
Posted By: adam Tue, Jul 22, 2014

The way they have captured Guangzu is remarkable....Guess that shuts up anyone who says these were not true portraits and just represented the sitters...That is a wonderful likeness

Subject:empress Xiao Zhen
Posted By: LEE Wed, Jul 23, 2014

Hi Adam, thanks for pointing out the similarities. When this portrait appeared for sell at Bonhams San Francisco, I was taken away by the similarity of the face of the main figure to empress Xiao Zhen (Cian). I noted the quality of the pigment that was used that was unusually bright. The boy fitted Guangxu from his facial feature and his age of about 9 y.o as Cian passed away soon after. The space for the title slip above the painting is left empty as a result, she never got to write on it . The mystery remains about the identity of the young lady. She holds a brown handkerchief. Could she be Cian's maid or could she be a princess or a relative?





Subject:Re: empress Xiao Zhen
Posted By: rat Thu, Jul 24, 2014

Nice painting, thanks for sharing. I can't imagine a maid would be presented so prominently in such a picture, particularly if a prince is merely lurking in the background, so perhaps there's more to the story.

Subject:Re: empress Xiao Zhen
Posted By: LEE Fri, Jul 25, 2014

Hi Rat, thanks for your observation, it could actually be a representation of princess Rong'an a possible child of Cian but passed away in 1875 at the age of 19 y.o

Subject:Re: empress Xiao Zhen
Posted By: adam Fri, Jul 25, 2014

I agree, likely from the royal household....Perhaps a favoured relative.
The royal family trees are long and tangled so finding who she is may be difficult, with little to be going on with, other than age and likeness...

Subject:Re: empress Xiao Zhen
Posted By: LEE Sat, Jul 26, 2014

Hi Adam, you are right it is most likely a relative and cannot possibly be a maid as the cup of tea sits on the stand besides Cian. Maid are usually depicted pouring tea or holding a cup of tea. There is no recorded portrait of princess Rongan so we cannot compare her face with it. However here are some portraits of confucius disciples. While we all know how confucius looks like form other portraits there is hardly any clear portraits of his disciples and the statues of the originals were destroyed during the cultural revolution. Can we recreate the images of the disciples from this portrait which is possibly a copy of a ming dynasty lost portrait of confucius and his 10 disciples.

Subject:Re: empress Xiao Zhen
Posted By: LEE Sat, Jul 26, 2014

Hi Rat bought this painting from a dealer that thinks it is Japanese, but the subject is Chinese. What is your opinion? I suspect it is a late Ching replica of a lost Ming dynasty painting of confucious and disciples. It is scrolled in the traditional Japanese manner of the Meiji period. Not sure how to tell between Kano style painting and chinese like this one http://asianart.com/exhibitions/confucius/1.html







Subject:Re: empress Xiao Zhen
Posted By: rat Mon, Jul 28, 2014

Nice painting, I am leaning on the basis of how the water, crane, and brushes are painted as well as the brushstrokes used on the robes towards going with the dealer on this one: Japanese 19th century? painting of Confucius and disciples. I don't know anything about the iconography of how Confucius's disciples are depicted but there may be some clues there for you to find. Not sure what the qilin or whatever it is is doing there either. My attention is drawn to the individual looking directly out at the viewer who is rendered with some representational skill: presumably the donor who paid for the painting? If this was not a Japanese practice (I don't know myself), then your painting is surely Chinese where it was not uncommon but the dating would be more of a challenge to figure out, at least for me.

The remaining characters on the box label seem to read 宗 or more likely 宋 趙伯駒, that is, (Southern) Song (academy painter) Zhao Boju.

Subject:Re: empress Xiao Zhen
Posted By: LEE Tue, Jul 29, 2014

Hi Rat, thanks very much for having a look at this painting. Thanks for interpreting what's left of the inscription. I am very impressed. thanks. I wish it was Song painter Zhao Boju, but it is probably a copy of a painting by the painter the style of the red chair does look a little song dynasty.

Subject:Re: empress Xiao Zhen
Posted By: LEE Tue, Jul 29, 2014

Hi Rat, the Qilin is strangely a subject in confucius paintings. I am not sure what the significance is either, but it is found in other confucius paintings in the Jinan museum Shandong. Also note the black and white floor tiles. The strange red chair that confucius sits on has a narrower back and a wider front this style of chair is found in Northern Liao and Southern Song period as found in 2 excavated chairs of the Liao period in Beijing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_furniture#mediaviewer/File:Liao_dynasty_furniture.jpg







Subject:Re: empress Xiao Zhen
Posted By: LEE Wed, Jul 30, 2014

The short and broad brushes appears to the type used in the ming dynasty

Subject:Re: empress Xiao Zhen
Posted By: LEE Sat, Jul 26, 2014

more pics







Subject:the Analects
Posted By: LEE Sat, Jul 26, 2014

more pics Japanese storage box who are there disciples from the faces? are they accurate portraits of them.







Subject:Re: the Analects
Posted By: LEE Tue, Jul 29, 2014

more Confucius paintings from Jinan Shandong Museum





Subject:Re: the Analects
Posted By: LEE Tue, Jul 29, 2014

Attempting to evaluate the accuracy of the items design to items design found during the Song dynasty to evalute the accuracy of the painting. I am guessing that this painting is a Song dynasty copy made in the Qing dynasty. The ruyi scepter that Confucius is holding looks like one that is made from gilded silver that was excavated in the Famen temple Shaanxi, dating to the Tang. http://english.chnmus.net/fortnightselection/node_12413.htm

Subject:Re: the Analects
Posted By: LEE Thu, Jul 31, 2014

picture of the Tang dynasty Famen temple ruyi sceptre with the long flat handle and the double cloud head, and the similarity to the style of ruyi in the this painting. Could this be a coincidence or is this a copy of a older painting?





Subject:Re: the Analects
Posted By: kirk Sun, Oct 26, 2014

There s a great tradition of tracing old masters in China. Even at the best art schools. What you really need to be looking at is how bold the line is. whether there is expression in it or whether it has been reproduced

Subject:Guangxu mark period vase
Posted By: LEE Fri, Apr 24, 2015

Imperial Guangxu wedding vase with dragon and phoenix motif.







Subject:Re: Guangxu mark period vase
Posted By: LEE Fri, May 08, 2015

more pics







Subject:Re: Guangxu mark period vase
Posted By: LEE Mon, May 11, 2015

Anyone seen a similarly decorated guangxu vase?

Subject:Re: Guangxu mark period vase
Posted By: Bill H Tue, May 12, 2015

Hi Lee,

The only decorative element of your vase I don't recall seeing on one piece or another of Guangxu period porcelain is that particular style of pointy-nosed bat, which I associate with earlier Qing reigns. Most of my experience has been with Guangxu M&P bowls and other regular dishes, as opposed to vases. Some of the bats on pieces I've collected did have rather sharp noses, just not quite like the beak on the one on your vase. Here are some images for comparison, first a bat with prominent beak from the border of a Daoguang period Canton famille Rose dish, then a close-up of a sharp-nosed iron red bat from the Guangxu-period saucer dish in the last group of images.

Hope this helps.

Bill H.







Subject:Re: Guangxu mark period vase
Posted By: LEE Wed, May 13, 2015

Hi Bill, thanks for your observation. The coloured pointy nose bat is unusual but can be found in the tongzhi period and some early guangxu ware. Pls check out this five bat bowl from the art gallery of nsw http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/collection/works/22.1998/

Also this vase sold at Sothebys Paris http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2010/asian-art-pf1027/lot.284.html

These vases came from a Melbourne family that inherited them from their grandfather that has been passed down the family a few generation.




URL Title :guangxu bowl with five bats


Subject:Re: Guangxu mark period vase
Posted By: Bill H Thu, May 14, 2015

Hi Lee,

Thanks for the info, which furthers my goal of learning new stuff by hanging around the forum. Now to get busy on that other goal of buying cool stuff for my collection, starting with a bowl like the one with those big-beaked bats.

Cheers,

Bill H.

Subject:Re: Guangxu mark period vase
Posted By: LEE Thu, May 14, 2015

The foot rim of this vase is very well rounded and smooth unlike the usual ones i come across, with no rough edges when you run your finger on them. They are more like ones found on mark and period imperial vases.







Subject:Re: Guangxu mark period vase
Posted By: lee Sat, Jun 06, 2015

bottom fragment of this type of vase on a chinese website

Subject:Re: Guangxu mark period vase
Posted By: LEE Mon, Jun 22, 2015

Pics of a fragment of this vase for sale at a chinese website.







Subject:Re: Guangxu mark period vase
Posted By: LEE Mon, Jun 22, 2015

pics no other example of this style of guangxu vase exist else than this fragment





Subject:Re: Guangxu mark period vase
Posted By: LEE Mon, Jun 22, 2015

the 2 pics shows the striking similarities of the cloud design. The shape and design are so similar it can be postulated that the design was drawn by a imperial artist before it was send to the work shop for the artisans to copy, hence the similarities in the painting of the vases.





Subject:Re: Guangxu mark period vase
Posted By: LEE Mon, Jun 22, 2015

note the sequence of colors on the feathers on the wings





Subject:Re: Guangxu mark period vase
Posted By: LEE Sun, Jul 19, 2015

there are traces of roots found at the bottom of both the vases after rinsing it with water to remove the dust. Not seen this in vases before wonder how the roots got there? could only think of 2 possibilities. 1) it was buried with emperor Guangxi and the roots from a near by tree has grown intuit before it was looted during the republic era.2) it was use to hold a willow branch or a lucky bamboo and the roots have grown into the vase. I have never seen this is a vase else than a Han dynasty vase that was buried. Any one else has seen this in a vase not been buried?







Subject:Re: Guangxu mark period vase
Posted By: LEE Sun, Jul 19, 2015

why are there traces of plant roots in this vase?








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