Asianart.com | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries


Visitors' Forum

Asian Art  Forums - Detail List
Asian Art Forums

Message Listing by Date:
Message Index | Back | Post a New Message | Search | Private Mail | FAQ
Subject:Lopburi style Buddha
Posted By: Mike in Thailand Tue, Oct 07, 2014 IP: 183.89.102.43

Yes, I live in Thailand and am familiar with the thousands of fake aged Buddha bronzes on the market. This one is better than most all I have seen. It doesn't scream fake from the start. The details on the casting are much better than most. This bronze stands 44cm tall X 16cm wide at its widest point. Might this piece be old and of the period? Thank yu all for any any opinions you may have. You will not hurt my feelings. I am still trying to learn.







Subject:Re: Lopburi style Buddha
Posted By: pierrevdw Wed, Oct 08, 2014

Hi Mike,

For bronze, always remember this:

- The natural corrosion always starts by the presence of cuprite: an ox blood color/dark red crystal substance.

- On the cuprite will grow the second form of corrosion: Malachite, a greenish crystal substance.
Please note that Malachite cannot grow on its own, it needs cuprite to develop.

- And finally you might find the third form on corrosion: Azurite, a blueish crystal.This one needs malachite to grow.

If you don't see any cuprite under malachite, you can be sure the corrosion is not natural.

As cuprite cannot be made from any acid treatment, more than often fake makers are unable to reproduce this process and sometime use dark red paint to lure people.

So, look for cuprite when you buy old bronze. If none, you know it is not natural corosion you see.
There are plenty of acid treated bronze around. If you folow this little advice, you will save a lot of Thai Bath.

In this case, from photos, I don't see what I'm looking for (cuprite) but it seems that the piece was treated with chemicals.
To be sure, just scratch the green areas and see if it is red underneath.

Cheers.

Subject:Re: Lopburi style Buddha
Posted By: Mike in Thailand Thu, Oct 09, 2014

WOW!! A response that actually teaches. Thank you so much Pierrevdw. I will do the test as you suggest, and let you know the results. Again, thanks for the lesson in bronze works.

Subject:Re: Lopburi style Buddha
Posted By: pierrevdw Fri, Oct 10, 2014

Hi Mike,

Well, as I can see in the forum, you are serious about Asian antiques, so I thought I could help a little.

Here are some example of what I was trying to explain:
1- a cut in a bronze showing malachite on top of cuprite, on top of bronze
2 and 3- cuprite and malachite on a real more or less 2.500 years old Chinese bronze.








Subject:Re: Lopburi style Buddha
Posted By: pierrevdw Fri, Oct 10, 2014

And now a dangerous fake old bronze:

-The red stuff is paint.
It is not crystal and is cracked regularly.
This can be seen with a strong magnifier only.

-All the rest of the look a like corrosion is made with acid containing substances , glue and mud.

Good luck.



Subject:Re: Lopburi style Buddha
Posted By: Mike in Thailand Sun, Oct 12, 2014

Pierre, I cannot thank you enough for you thoughtful and knowledgeable response. It is so greatly appreciated.

Yes, I do have a strong interest in the Asian antiques. I have collected for over 40 years and was a dealer for 30 years. My specialty has been mostly Japanese, with some knowledge of Chinese.

I have now lived in Thailand for 6 years and am starting to feel that I can at least converse on the subject of SE Asian art and antiques.

Again, thank you for sharing your knowledge.

By the way, I did do a scraping on the Buddha, and as you suspected, it is an applied patina.

Very sincerely,

Mike Boysen

Subject:Re: Lopburi style Buddha
Posted By: pierrevdw Tue, Oct 14, 2014

Hi Mike,

....my pleasure.

I wish we could exchange stories, knowledge etc, but it might not be the right way to do it on the forum.

Here is my Email, pls send me a note and we could start from there.
I'm no dealer, no seller, just a freak of antiques ;)
Address: [email protected]

Cheers

Subject:Re: Lopburi style Buddha
Posted By: Nicolas_Vietnam Sun, Oct 19, 2014

Dear Mike and Pierre,

I think the following Lopburi style buddha's pictures may be of interest to compare with the piece presented in that post. However, even if the style seems close to the original ones (in particular some I could see in Thai museums), I have serious doubt it may be from the period. Some red oxidation can be seen around the necklace and belt which may show the statue has some age, however it is too little for a piece 700 year-old. And I still wonder which mysterious drama could affect the 2 arms and neck, but miraculously preserved the statue's perfect face and the jewellery's details...

I also enclose a picture of what is surely a beautiful genuine crowned Buddha from Lopburi, which was shown during the last New York Asia Week 2014.

Best regards,

Nicolas

De Collection


De Collection


De Collection


De Collection


De Collection


De Collection


De Collection


De Collection


De Collection


De Collection


De Collection


De Collection


De Collection





Subject:Re: Lopburi style Buddha
Posted By: pierrevdw Mon, Oct 20, 2014

Hello Nicolas,

I can't agree more with you.
Nice example of a genuine piece in New York.

What disturbs me most with the armless Buddha is his face.
One should expect a serenity / happiness kind of smile. This one seems in a bad mood so to speak.

And yes, the corrosion is too little for an old piece considering the high humidity exposure encountered by S/E Asian bronze sculptures.

Cheers


Asianart.com | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries |