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Subject:Chinese Stool/Table
Posted By: Keith Sun, Jan 04, 2015 IP: 66.234.203.244

Can anyone tell me what the white markings on the bottom of this table mean?

You will also notice that, while it is badly deteriorated by age, part of a paper label is visible in this photo. The part I can read says . . . Tai & Co and also Canton.
I don't know if this Tai & Co is the name of the company that first sold this table or if it is the name of the manufacturer.

There are also markings in black(not shown in photo) on every piece of this table. I am assuming these markings in black had something to do with the assembly of this table.

Any information about the markings in white, ...Tai & Co Canton, the markings in black, or anything else that you might know about this table, would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.







Subject:Re: Chinese Stool/Table
Posted By: Bill H Fri, Jan 09, 2015

When rotated to proper reading position, the white characters read down in Mandarin as "Zhen Zi Dui Jiao" (珍字对脚), which I believe probably is translatable here as "Valuable information regarding legs" (of the table).

Best regards,

Bill H.

Subject:Cantonese 因住对脚
Posted By: Super Sat, Jan 10, 2015

I saw your request in the other message and was equally puzzled with 珍字对脚 because I have never ever heard of these four Chinese characters being used together in this manner. I was going nowhere until I read your message which says "Tai & Co Canton" and I started laughing once I figured out their meaning.

You see, these four characters, IMHO, are not really Mandarian, but Cantonese, one of the many Chinese dialects that is being spoken in the Guangdong (Canton)province of China (including Hong Kong). I happen to speak both Mandarian and Cantonese.

You see the difficulties with many Chinese dialects such as Cantonese is that there are some words (or should I say characters) you can say them but there are no written words (or characters) for them, therefore one would have to use other characters that sound similar to these word and use them as the written words. That is like you may think you can read English but if somebody include a lot of local slang in their writing you would be totally lost with what they tried to say. If a Cantonese would write a Chinese essay in Cantonese (and not Mandarian), I I guarantee you that non-Cantonese would not be able to understand most of it. I myself some time had troubles understanding writing that were written in Cantonese until I translated each single character from Cantonese back to Mandarin because while I did speak Cantonese in Hong Kong everyday but learned to write in Mandarian in schools (that is for everybody). Simply put, I did not write what I spoke. For this reason, quite a few Cantonese in Hong Kong are poor in Chinese writing, just like many black people in USA who are not good in writing English because they speak Ebonics in their daily lives.

Another interesting fact is that Vietnamese which may be an ancient Chinese dialect and used to be written in Chinese characters was turned into a writing system of romanization by the French in the 17th century. If any ancient Vietnamese can return to today's Vietnam they would not be able to read a single modern written Vietnamese word.

The four characters on your table (from top to bottom)
珍字对脚

would probably be more appropriate to pronounce as
因住对脚

脚 - here means leg (or legs)
对 - can mean correct or accurate if using as an adjective, but it was used as a noun here which means a pair (or a set);
珍字 should be more appropriately written as 因住 which means Be careful (*To make it more complicated, there are a lot of different villages/towns in the Quangdong province and the official language for those who reside in the Guangdong city would indeed be Cantonese but everybody who originated from different parts of Quangdong would speak their own dialects, with some which are very close to Cantonese but with some that can be quite different, almost like an accent).

Therefore together, I believe the four characters, if indeed were written in Cantonese would mean:

Be careful of the pair (or set) of legs (of the table).

It is possible that they were the instruction for the one who would assemble the table; or for the one who would transport it or for the one who would use it (are the legs kind of wobbling?).

Hope this helps and thanks for offering me a challenging translation puzzle.

Super



Subject:Re: Cantonese 因住对脚
Posted By: keith Mon, Jan 12, 2015

Super,

Thank you very much for your very informative and interesting response. Your comments explain why, when I wrote to an antique shop in Shanghai, the proprietor told me he had no idea what the symbols meant.

I live near San Francisco, California, USA. I understand that most of the Chinese people in the San Francisco area speak Cantonese. I know that some speak Mandarin though. I have a friend whose young grand-daughter, a girl adopted from China, takes classes in Mandarin. She will be bi-linqual, Mandarin and English.

Do you live in Hong Kong?

If you would wish to reply, my email is [email protected]

Thank you again for your very informative and interesting response to my question about the markings on this stool/table.

Best regards,

Keith

Subject:Re: Cantonese 因住对脚
Posted By: Super Tue, Jan 13, 2015

Hi, Keith:

I know it did sound a bit far-fetched because even after I had posted my translation I did have some doubts about it. Of course I could be wrong if those characters are not "Cantonese".

The problems are:
(1) If you try to google the four characters 珍字对脚, I guarantee you would never find anything on them. If you ask any Chinese what they mean, again I guarantee you that nobody can tell you because to the best of my knowledge, these four characters were never used together and I have studied Chinese for more than 50 years;
(2) Now if you ask somebody who can speak Cantonese what 因住对脚 mean I believe many of them would be able to tell you;
(3) The last two characters 对脚 being written on a table (or a chair?) has to mean a pair of legs (either one pair or two pairs). That is the most probable translation for them;
(4) The use of 珍字 instead of the more modern 因住 may mean this table is older than 60 years or whoever wrote them actually spoke a Cantonese dialect, therefore pronounced them a bit different.

Do any of the legs of your table appear to be a bit shaky, or uneven or easily broken?

I was originally from Hong Kong but now reside in USA. I love Chinese literature and once wanted to study comparative literature and became a writer. I did get some of my Chinese poems and translated poems (from English) published on Hong Kong newspapers and won quite a few written essay contests when I was a teenager

Cheer.

Super

Subject:Re: Cantonese 因住对脚
Posted By: rat Tue, Jan 13, 2015

Thanks Super, we are lucky to have you here. Your insight that this is a Cantonese expression is great.

Subject:Re: Cantonese 因住对脚
Posted By: Super Thu, Jan 15, 2015

Hi, rat:

You are too kind. You and Bill H have been selflessly helping so many people in translating what they posted even some of them might post only images of the Chinese writings instead of the whole pieces. I would no longer translate anything if they do not post picture of the complete piece or if the pieces are commerical pieces that do not have any artistic values. In my age, my time has become more precious. Best regards. Super

Subject:Re: Cantonese 因住对脚
Posted By: rat Fri, Jan 16, 2015

Yes, I share your frustration and have gotten more picky myself. There are few flattering reasons to justify withholding photos of the overall work. Ironically I find that sometimes the pictures are rather more interesting than the artists whose purported names are signed to them, but those looking for translations are not always interested in such things.


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