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A dark brown nephrite sword guard,possibly Han with Chilong to one side and Taotie to reverse.

6.5cm by 1.5cm wide and 2.5cm tall.

Weight in air 53.1gr,in water 18.3 = specific gravity 2.901

http://www.asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=84771

Sorry, I have a sneaking suspicion that this comes from the above factory as well
Ernest

Dear Ernest,
How can this be when the piece was collected in the 1960-70's ?

Regards,

Vic

Additional pictures.

I second that Ernest.

Once again, the material does not look correct and carving styles are clearly modern and rough.

In fact, there even better carved replicas out there for this type of archaic Jade.

The piece and others were assessed as late 19 early 20th c of the type purchased by Paul de Tanner Commissioner of Customs in Suzhou between 1881 and 1921.

Please beware of armchair experts. No responsible collector or dealer would give you an opinion on authenticity without examining the item in person. This forum is riddled with them.

Kim Lee or whoever you are:

What you said actually made a lot of sense:
"No responsible collector or dealer would give you an opinion on authenticity without examining the item in person."

But may serve better if you would replace the "collector or dealer" with "jade experts or jade professionals".

One of the most respected jade experts in North America absolutely refused to render opinions on any of my jade pieces based digital pictures only. He said it was hard enough to appraise any jade pieces in person, it would be foolhardy to attempt to appraise them from pictures. That came from a jade expert who was invited by one of the largest auction houses to study Emperor QianLong's archer ring collection that was sold for seven figures (in US dollars).

However, for us jade collectors aka jade lovers if we cannot even attempt to share our opinions or thoughts on any jade pieces, what fun would there be? Are we not responsible if we render our opinions on jade pieces that were posted here? Did any of us claim we are jade experts or professional jade appraisers and charge anybody a fee? You need to relax and just enjoy the hobby. If you expect academic discussions on any Asian arts including jades here, may be you are in the wrong place? No pun intended.

On the other hand, a lot of supposedly "responsible" dealers including some auction houses would often include some dubious jade pieces in their auctions. Did they give the buyers a life-time money back guarantees for the jade pieces they auctioned? I doubt it.

One of the renown jade experts who resides in California, has written quite a few jade works, has his own web site selling expensive jade pieces, often appraised jades for a fee. Yet, some believed he did a great job while many did not believe his opinions was worth more than the paper on which they were written. Would you consider him an "armchair" expert too?

In short, even among so called "jade experts" or "jade professionals", even they can appraise a jade piece in person, they would very often render totally different opinions. Therefore, may be you should not be so hard on others or on yourself. I have yet met a jade dealer who would guarantee to buy back any jade pieces they sold at the same prices or with slight discounts they sold them for. What did that tell you? Super

I am very hesitated to give my opinions on your piece because I really do not know a lot about sword guards, not because I am afraid to be called an "armchair expert". (I am actually a couch potato jade lover).

One of the renown jade experts in North America, once responded to my asking if he had ever come across any archaic jades (Han or earlier) in his profession as a jade dealer/expert. He said he only came across three pieces and only one piece he was absolutely sure with its authenticity while he had doubts about the other two.

I was kind of astounded to hear that because I would think with his profound knowledge on jades and his connections, it would be almost a piece of cake for him to locate archaic jades.

The material of this piece is at best dubious because if it was indeed made during the Han dynasty or even in late 19 or early 20th century, it would make it late Qing or early Republic. Yet pretty nice white Hetain jade, or Xingjiang bi yu (dark green nephrite jade) or bi yu (dark green nephrite jade) from Siberia were still readily available during that time period. A lot of large jade pieces of Emperor QianLong were made of this type of beautiful XingJiang bi yu. The material of your sword guard does not resemble any of these material. INHO. However, it was very possible that your pictures may not have reflected its true color.

Also, the quality of its carving, IMHO, does not reflect works of early Republic or late Qing (which was actually difficult to distinguish) and simply not that of Han. To include a Taotie in its design is also quite interesting.

Of course, since I am only a "couch-potato jade lover" of course my opinion is very often should be taken with only a grain of salt. There are a lot of jade experts who are readily available to render you their professional opinions on your jade piece, either for free or for a fee. Cheer.

Dear Super,

I was surprised to read your latest comments which appear to be addressing me when reponding to Kim Lee.

I am in the U.K. and have neither an axe to grind nor use a 'nom de plume' and am happy with all responses given.

My post of 15th January relates the opinion of Carol Michaelson to this piece.

I saw her by appointment at the British Museum.

http://www.britishmuseum.org/about_us/departments/staff/asia/carol_michaelson.aspx

The de Tanner collection as stated was collected between 1881 and 1921 and is known fron a two part catalogue that he had published circa 1925.

The Catalogue is very rare and I hope to see a copy at the British Library within the next 3-4 weeks,all things being equal.

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/books-manuscripts/de-tanner-p-chinese-jade-ancient-and-5596509-details.aspx

I found on the internet some de Tanner pieces at an auction in the USA sold by William Bunch Auctions 2 years ago and will show them here.

Not sure what to make of them but as I've been pointed in that direction I will try and see if my pieces appear in the de Tanner Catalogue.

Incidentally,there appears to be very little out there about this collection but the general opinion is that some pieces were genuine and others were made to order at the time of his tenure in China; whether to fool him or not I can't say.

People have opinions and that is what most public forums are for,so that people can share their opinions on pieces presented for consideration.

Best regards,

Vic

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