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Subject:Jade holes and string marks..... how telling are they!?
Posted By: Cordelia Tue, Jan 13, 2015 IP: 5.70.213.9

Do these look like the sort of thing you are talking about.... can you experts actually tell anything from these pics? Don't worry this isn't a trick.. It's a piece I own.... and I have some theories.. but interested to hear the opinions of you experts.... it does seem to me that virtually every photo posted on here has been dismissed as a fake by someone.... even things that have been sold at Christies!!!!! And hell if they can't tell it doesn't give me much hope that anyone can.... But this piece, though in my opinion fabulous, has no provenance at all... (Neither have any of my collection)... and it was purchased as a soapstone for less than £100...I have done a scratch test on it... no mark.... and it seems to tick a lot of the boxes you guys have commented on in the past.... So really fascinated to see if I am starting to learn and also what you gurus can tell from a few holes and lines!?!







Subject:Re: Jade holes and string marks..... how telling are they!?
Posted By: adam Wed, Jan 14, 2015

From what I can see it looks like qing dynasty work on jade...Try an image of the whole piece as that helps to identify it stylistically

Subject:Re: Jade holes and string marks..... how telling are they!?
Posted By: Cordelia Thu, Jan 15, 2015

Thanks for your comments..... What period Qing do you think.... Do you feel it's a "deliberate fake" or simply a piece intended to " honour the ancient"..? Of course nobody intended to fraud me personally as I didn't even buy it as a jade.... apparently it came from a New York estate sale.....am I correct in thinking it may be vaguely Han in style?... The chilongs are different though with more elongated heads.....was very interested to read Adam's remarks on " crystal regrowth" on my other thread... I'm learning so much from you guys even in a few days... Really happy I found this forum! Here's some photos of the whole piece....Its well carved with no over shooting on lines etc... and large... around 13 inches.... it's a lovely creamy colour with a very high polish on the flat side..... Do you think the £85 I paid was a bargain...? Most of this was postage and import duties tbh....Its a pretty one isn't it?....what do you reckon? :0)







Subject:Re: Jade holes and string marks..... how telling are they!?
Posted By: Dave Fri, Jan 16, 2015

Great example of fantasy modern replicas out there. Too many themes trying to squeeze into one item.

The Chilong looks nothing like those during the Qing dynasty. Pretty obvious from the poor carvings in general. Take a step back and assess the piece - it looks hard and lack of "life".

Subject:Re: Jade holes and string marks..... how telling are they!?
Posted By: Cordelia Sat, Jan 17, 2015

I'm not suggesting you aren't correct .... I'll be interested to see Adam's take when he sees the whole thing... I'm sure he'll agree with you.... As I have explained Im a novice.... although the carving looks pretty good and very controlled to my admittedly inexperienced eye.... I certainly can't see any signs of overshooting of lines etc that I seem to be reading are inevitable in most modern pieces.... And on a piece this large wouldn't you expect a few mistakes...? I can't imagine it's worth less than I paid anyway and I personally think it's a stunning looking piece of jade art.... Age isn't paramount in my opinion!

Subject:Not a Qing piece IMHO
Posted By: Super Sat, Jan 24, 2015

I would like to give Adam the benefit of the doubt that he commented on your piece as "looks like qing dynasty work on jade" before he could see the pictures of the complete piece. To appraise any jade pieces with only low-resolution pictures, IMHO, can be very risky and some time foolhardy. One of the most respected jade experts in North America, who was invited by a large auction house to study Emperor QianLong's archer ring collection that was sold for seven figures, absolutely refused to render his opinions on any of my jade collections based on pictures alone. He said it was difficult enough to appraise a jade piece in person and to appraise a piece with pictures alone was crazy.

Don't misunderstand me, I was cheering for you, hoping that you did indeed find a Qing piece but refrained from making any comments based on a few close up low-resolution pictures first posted by you. After you had posted pictures of the complete piece, there was absolutely no doubt in my mind that the chance of your piece being that of late Qing or even early Republic, IMHO, is absolutely zero.

Dave said it the best "Too many themes trying to squeeze into one item"
Why in the world would anybody mix the character "shou" (longevity) with so many other stuff on your piece? What is the purpose of such a piece, to serve as birthday gift? To wear it? To hang it on the wall? To admire it?

Secondly, the material is simply horrific (sorry), it may not even be nephrite, or at best very low grade nephrite material;

Thirdly, just because a jade piece is old, doesn't mean there should be a lot of tool marks being left on such pieces. Please do not confuse "sloppy carvings" with "manual tools" or "archaic/ancient pieces", that had more to do with "sloppy carving skills" (sloppy carvers)than anything else. You should really not see so many tool marks being left on any decent Qing dynasty pieces because like I had repeatedly said many times in this forum, prior to the invention of jade polishing methods with using high grits in the Qing dynasty, just time spending on the polishing of a jade piece alone would take a year or longer. How in the world would there be so many carving lines being left on your piece if your piece is indeed a Qing dynasty piece? Even modern high speed polishing would do a better job.

There is a total lack of luster on your piece and if you ever look at the satin look on the surfaces of some authentic Qing pieces, you would be able to tell the difference between the two. Your piece is totally DEAD. Those lines on your piece, IMHO, were done with modern tools.

In short, there are totally no evidence to show me that your piece is indeed an ancient jade piece or is worth more than the £85 you had paid for it. Whether it was a bargain or not is whether you would learn more from it as a study piece than the money you had paid for it. If yes, then it would be indeed a bargain. No pun intended because I had paid a lot of tuition buying study pieces like yours during my jade learning.

Lastly, I sincerely suggest that you may want to start a collection of jade books written by respected jade experts and learn from their vast jade knowledge and experience. Of course, since I am no jade expert, did not inherit a great jade collection from my ancestors or is able to handle your piece in person, I sincerely apologize if your piece may indeed be an authentic Qing dynasty piece. Again no pun intended and I had experienced some of your frustrations and share your love for jade. Super


Subject:Re: Not a Qing piece IMHO
Posted By: adam Mon, Jan 26, 2015

doesn look like jade!!!


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