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Subject:AN UPDATE! Satsuma Dragonware Tea Set (on Gotheborg): Researching & helpful opinions appreciated!
Posted By: Robin Bodiford Sun, Mar 15, 2015 IP: 66.170.193.122

I have a previous post about this tea set on February 26th, so I won't rehash all that.

Update: I've submitted better quality pictures to a major auction house and I received a positive first reply wanting to know more. I was advised by Snap to get the set appraised. However, that's proven to be a little more frustrating than I expected in my area. (If anyone knows of a reputable expert in the Houston area, please let me know.)

I've been doing research on my own and I would appreciate help in tweaking my findings and adding to them. Here is one of them:

At first, I was perplexed as to why such a great artist (if truly discovered to be painted by Ryozan) would not pay attention to the eye pupils on one of the immortals and place them haphazardly cross-eyed. To me, this is something that a westerner wouldn't understand and may even find to be unattractive. So my first step was to Google "cross eyed immortals (Gods, etc.)." I found several sites that touched on this subject. Most interesting was Mikoshi-nyudo, mostly encountered on mountain passes and lonely roads (please see link). Ryozan was born Nakamura Tatsunosuke. He was the most famous potter who worked for the Yasuda Company. I'm also trying to find out where Ryozan was born. In the mountainous regions, the mountain immortals were revered and feared in some areas and prayed to for successful crop seasons. It would be reasonable to expect that these immortals would be honored in the artwork. I find it interesting and exceptional that the artist that painted this tea set stayed true to the interpretation of Japanese folklore of the cross eyed mountain immortal despite the pressure of making it appealing for Western export. It kind of makes me think that this might have been more earlier in the Meiji period than later. Is it possible that this was made prior to Ryozan joining the Yasuda Company? It could also explain the change in signature style to identify him as a Yasudo artist.

Am I on the right track? What other details should I be paying attention to? I've added close up photos for better inspection.

Thanks for all of your great help and input!







Subject:Re: AN UPDATE! Satsuma Dragonware Tea Set (on Gotheborg): Researching & helpful opinions appreciated!
Posted By: Robin Bodiford Mon, Mar 16, 2015

Also please note that the set does look a bit dusty. I've only lightly dusted this set in the years that I've had it because I want to be careful not to remove anymore of the gold and enamel.

Another thing is that I noticed that when I took pictures of it out in the natural light, I saw (for a lack of a better description) "an iridescent almost bluish hue to the glaze." I searched for that description and found a glaze called gasu-blue but I could be way off base. Here are more pictures.

Again, your helpful comments are very appreciated!







Subject:Re: AN UPDATE! Satsuma Dragonware Tea Set (on Gotheborg): Researching & helpful opinions appreciated!
Posted By: Arjan Tue, Mar 17, 2015

Hi Robin,

This Dragonware style became very popular during late Meiji and taisho period. Made on Satsuma like ware and porcelain (kutani?). I enclose 2 pictures of a stemmed bowl (whatever it is) from my collection wich probably is a rather early example of that style. (late 19th century) It's a kind of mix ... Satsuma with some Kutani elements. Maybe you can see the difference in detailing as wel. All in one: I don't think your set is early Meiji but made around 1920.

Regards,

Arjan





Subject:Re: AN UPDATE! Satsuma Dragonware Tea Set (on Gotheborg): Researching & helpful opinions appreciated!
Posted By: Robin Bodiford Wed, Mar 18, 2015

Thank you so much for your input. I must say, you take excellent pictures! I do like your cup and saucer very well!

However, I was looking for more of an "apples to apples" comparison such as this one on ebay. It is listed as Meiji Period, 1968 - 1912. The one on eBay looks nice to me; however, do a side by side comparison to mine and you'll clearly see the differences.

From what I have read, the export market was littered with lower quality dragonware (definitely not saying the one on eBay is lower quality). However, there were still companies that kept their standards higher above the rest.

Again, I appreciate your input! Now I'm at the point of finding an expert to actually give me a hands-on appraisal. I feel I at least know enough to tell when an appraiser is giving me the bull. For example, I did take it to an "expert" way back when I bought it (for insurance purposes only). The only thing I really knew about it was that the circle and cross "meant something." When he saw it, he tried to encourage me to auction it off. So I said, "How much do you think it will fetch and what do the marks mean?" He told me he didn't recognize the marks and that I would make more money if I just auctioned it rather than paying for an appraisal because he could tell it was "good quality." I packed it up and left without saying another word to him. I made my point to him rather clearly and I lost trust in "experts" for a long while. (I think it was later after that I found Gotheborg.) So in effect, I've never really had it looked at by a reputable expert.

Again, I appreciate your kind input!

Sincerely,
Robin

Subject:Re: AN UPDATE! Satsuma Dragonware Tea Set (on Gotheborg): Researching & helpful opinions appreciated!
Posted By: Robin Bodiford Thu, Mar 19, 2015

Well, evidently my link didn't show up. So here is a comparison of a plate that is supposedly around the same age and also marked Ryozan; however, you can see the difference.





Subject:Re: AN UPDATE! Satsuma Dragonware Tea Set (on Gotheborg): Researching & helpful opinions appreciated!
Posted By: snap Fri, Mar 20, 2015

Very large numbers of such wares were exported to the West, especially USA, especially 1890s-1920s. Decoration quality ranged from fair to very good. You can find better quality in such matters as details if you search this site and look at a lot of vases. The best quality Satsuma, not made for export, is rarely seen in the West but there have been a couple of magazine articles about it.

For USA, decoration quality did not matter unless visibly sloppy. Buyers were boggled by bright enamels, exotic designs and lots of gold color, and seldom had artistic sensibility.

Remember that appraisals are made on the basis of then-current market values. Prevailing tastes change, and today's do not mirror USA-1920s in most parts of the world.

Subject:Re: AN UPDATE! Satsuma Dragonware Tea Set (on Gotheborg): Researching & helpful opinions appreciated!
Posted By: Robin Bodiford Sun, Mar 22, 2015

Thank you for your input, Snap. Very informative! Yes, there are a lot of decorative export wares in the US and I think it makes it harder to discern the better pieces at times.


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