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Subject:Any information very gratefully received
Posted By: Stuart Thu, Apr 30, 2015 IP: 109.145.136.179

Dear All,

I hope this is in the correct section...

We have several pieces of what I presume are Chinese or Japanese pottery. Attached are pictures of two examples.

I would be VERY interested if anyone could shed any light onto the origins and/or makers of these items. My grandmother had an antiques shop many years ago and these were left over when she died. I know nothing about them except that they have been in the family as long as I can remember (39 years).

Many thanks, Stuart





Subject:Re: Any information very gratefully received
Posted By: Arjan Fri, May 01, 2015

Hi Stuart,

These are Chinese. What you have are two examples with a pattern what is mostly called "rose medallion" (or Rose Canton). Some people makes a difference between Rose Canton (panels with only birds, flowers and butterflies), rose mandarin (panels with only people as on your second picture) or rose medallion (panels wich shows both as on your first picture).
They started to make this ware around 1840 and I think they still make it. A lot was produced in Macao and Hong Kong around the 1970's.
My guess for dating your's .... I think your first one is late 19th. century and the second one could be earlier (around mid 19th. century.)

Regards,

Arjan

Subject:Re: Any information very gratefully received
Posted By: Victor Fri, May 01, 2015

This is a Chinese export pattern generally termed 'rose mandarin' and circa 1840+

It should be porcelain rather than pottery.

If you can pass a light through it it is porcelain.

Vic

Subject:Re: Any information very gratefully received
Posted By: Stuart Sun, May 03, 2015

Thank you for the advice!

I can confirm it's porcelain.

All the best, Stuart

Subject:Re: Any information very gratefully received
Posted By: Bill H Fri, May 01, 2015

These are both fine-looking examples of Chinese Canton famille rose porcelain wares. The blanks for them were produced at the porcelain center of Jingdezhen, Jiangxi Province, and sent south for decoration at Guangzhou, the Pearl River export trade center formerly called Canton, in Guangdong Province.

The lotus-form dish in your first photo is in a principal variant of the Rose Medallion pattern, consisting of four reserves with scroll motive borders surrounding a central medallion circled by a gilt ring. Two of the reserves depict flora (predominantly peonies) and fauna (birds & insects) from a Chinese garden. The other two have genre scenes of Mandarin life, while the medallion features the further garden view of a bird perched on a rock amidst peonies. All of the preceding overlies a ground of tightly scrolling green vines on gilt.

The deeper and apparently larger bowl has reserves featuring genre scenes similar to Rose Medallion but bordered within a gilt geometric design called the "Thunder" (Lei) fret, after Lei Gong, a principal military deity. The other two reserves have scrolling borders surrounded by a profusion of auspicious symbols, including the "Attributes of the Eight Immortals" (of Daoism). The rim of the bowl is richly decorated with butterflies and birds amidst a variety of flowering and fruiting branches, all on a gilt ground.

The foregoing bowl might be referred to as "Rose Mandarin", though in essence it seems linked to Rose Medallion via their similar arrangement of reserves and a central medallion. However, this link may be predictive, since the border on this bowl can be dated as far back as the second quarter of the 19th century, according to the 1982 Peabody (now Peabody Essex) Museum catalog study by Dr. John Quentin Feller of Canton Famille Rose Porcelains in the Alma Cleveland Porter Collection. Of course, the border almost certainly continued to be used awhile after 1850.

The Rose medallion pattern variant, as well as its decorative quality as seen on your lotus-form dish, dates it to around the late third to early fourth quarter of the 19th century, circa 1860-1880, in my opinion. This variant of the pattern continued in production, though quality declined after 1875, per Feller's research and my experience as a collector of Rose Medallion.

Your lotus dish is one of a number of Rose Medallion pattern variants, the earliest being the one shown below with melon-shaped reserves, which was in production by the 1850's.

Best regards,

Bill H.





Subject:Re: Any information very gratefully received
Posted By: Stuart Sun, May 03, 2015

Thank you so much for the detailed information! It's very interesting to learn about the details and history of these bowls. I had no idea they were so old... Are they rare/valuable? I have to admit, my mother uses the large round one (about 40cm across) as a fruit bowl and the other occasionally acts as a water dish under pot plants.

I have two other pieces which I will fish out. They are not such fine material and the base colour is more of a blue/green.

Thanks again! Stuart

Subject:Re: Any information very gratefully received
Posted By: Bill H Tue, May 05, 2015

To get an appreciation of value, I suggest you go to reliable web malls such as trocadero.com or rubylane.com and query the terms rose medallion and rose mandarin via their search features. Not everything you get in the responses will actually be rose medallion or rose mandarin wares, because these sites allow their sellers to pad their listings with supposedly related additional keywords. Neither do all of the sellers list their asking prices. However, enough do show the prices to give you an idea of what your examples are worth. Just keep in mind that most of the asking prices tend to be negotiable.

Best regards,

Bill H.

Subject:Re: Any information very gratefully received
Posted By: bich Fri, May 01, 2015

19th chinese famille rose madarine


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