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Your help in solving these mysteries is greatly appreciated. I apologize as this is a ponderous post, there are many details that pertain to intriguing aspects about these prints.

I recently acquired these two Kunisada prints from the same source. They were both in matching frames and the backing paper was stamped by the art supply store that did the framing. The store is no longer in existence and the phone number given on the stamp is only 4-digits. Four digit phone numbers were used in this city as late as the 1950s and I was able to find an advert for this store with a seven digit phone number in the early 1960s. So, the prints were framed prior to 1960.

Both prints are from the series 53 Stations of the Tokaido (with beauties) popularly known as the Bijin Tokaido.

The first print is station #14 Hara with the view of Fuji in the background.

The second print is station #17 Yui.

Doing research on the Internet there is plenty of good information that can be found about this series and many examples of prints can be found online with enlargement features such as at the MFA in Boston.

According to Kunisada.de "The first edition of this series seems to have been published by Sanoya Kihei and Moriya Jihei together, the prints bear the seal of both publishers and also a red kiwame seal. Later editions have only one publisher seal, either Sanoya Kihei or Moriya Jihei."

There are plenty of examples that can be found online of this series having both publisher's seals and then one or the other. Both of these prints have the seal of the publisher Sanoya Kihei.

My first question to you, that has relevance to solving these prints mysteries, is if two publishers were independently producing prints simultaneously does it follow there were at least two sets of woodblocks in existence at that time?

Some general observations about these particular prints:
1. Chuban size: exact dimensions are 10 x 7-1/8 inches
2. The print quality (registration, sharpness of impression, and colors) is exceptional when compared to all other examples I can find online. Even the sharpness of the red seals are precise when compared to other examples online. Unfortunately, the limitations of this forum does not allow me to post full size high resolution images.

3. A tactile observation: the chain lines are in the correct orientation for a chuban however the feel of this paper is different than other prints I own from the mid to early 19th century. The other prints I own have mostly a soft, linen, almost rag like feel. The paper of these prints however have more of a crisp, rigid, feel to them and are perhaps a bit heavier weight, or bond.

There are several mysteries about these particular prints:
1. In the print of #14 Hara the kiwame censor seal is a variant that does not appear on all the other examples of this print I can find online with only the Sanoya Kihei publisher seal. Furthermore, I can't find any matches online to this variant on the kiwame.

2. In the print of #17 Yui there is a significant difference in the pattern in the bijin's obi sash compared to this image that was published by Moriya Jihei. Many examples can be found of this image printed by Moriya Jihei on the excellent website Ukiyo-e.org and only one print can be found online for the Sanoya Kihei version. That one example is found at Wein MAK museum:


The variation in the obi sash pattern seen in that print matches the one I own. This variation between the two publishers of this same image is what I was alluding to earlier.

In conclusion, can you shed any light on the variations mentioned and include any references to other examples that will help pin down when these prints were made, which edition they are, and why the variants exist?

The pictures shown here are the two prints and the 3rd picture is the close-up of the kiwame seal in question. I will make a second post to provide additional pictures that includes the variation of the obi-sash.

Thank you in advance for your kind assistance.







Link :Obi Sash Variant

Pictures did not upload for some reason, second attempt.

I didn't have time to look at these in detail. The first one above (with Mt Fuji in the background) has garish reds I associate with the Meiji era (after Kunisada died). Are you sure these are not repros?

I did a quick compare with one at the Boston MFA. The #14 (Hara) presented above looks like a later printing from different blocks to me (not an original). Your suspicions about the paper appear valid.

Regards,
Stan

Stan,

Thank you for your replies.

Have you ever seen the variation on the kiwame censor seal shown in the close-up? I can't find another and your ID will be most helpful.

Also, if you get a chance, please look at the related posting titled >>Kunisada Print Additional Pictures>> showing the details of the print on the MAK Vienna website that compares the two different publishers.

Best regards.

I haven't seen a kiwame seal like that. I'd call copy error. Also note that the smaller cartouche in the upper right of your print is one character short when compared to the MFA print. Also,the last character in the same cartouche is different than in the MFA print. In general, the quality of the carving of your print is inferior to the MFA print.

Cheers,
Stan

Only one of your pictures appeared.

>>My first question to you, that has relevance to solving these prints mysteries, is if two publishers were independently producing prints simultaneously does it follow there were at least two sets of woodblocks in existence at that time?

I think the answer is: No. The publisher's seal was applied at the end (some were in the blocks) using a stamp. Thus, the stamps could be for both or either publisher for the same set of blocks. I believe that the assumption that two publishers were publishing simultaneously is wrong. Can you verify?

Blathering on with no pictures to work with...

Sometimes woodblocks were "edited". If an area of a block was damaged, it was cut out and a plug was inserted and carved anew. Thus, prints can have areas that are different.

Cheers,
Stan

Hi Stan,

Thank you for your reply. Yes, I think the pictures finally uploaded correctly, it appears many other posts are having trouble with posting pictures.

>>According to Kunisada.de "The first edition of this series seems to have been published by Sanoya Kihei and Moriya Jihei together, the prints bear the seal of both publishers and also a red kiwame seal. Later editions have only one publisher seal, either Sanoya Kihei or Moriya Jihei."<<

You are correct Stan that it is an assumption on my part those later editions referred to by Kunisada.de above were simultaneous. If they were sequential I do not know the order either.

So as a rule, there would be only one set of printing blocks used by both publishers.

Damaged sections being changed could account for the differences in the #17 Yui obi sash. I'll better try to illustrate that difference in the related second post titled >>Kunisada Print Additional Pictures<<

Now that the pictures have posted, is anyone familiar with the variation of the kiwame shown in the close-up, do you know what it is called, and can you provide references to other examples?

Compare the seal I posted with the example posted at the MFA in Boston link below.

Thank you for your kind assistance.







URL Title :MFA Boston View of Hara

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