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Subject:Inscription cloisonne dragon vase
Posted By: beadiste Sat, Aug 22, 2015 IP: 206.174.69.67

I managed to figure out that this vase had something to do with Mongolia, but what and when?
Can someone please contribute a translation?

Unfortunately, I neglected to keep a copy of a picture of this particular vase. What I remember is that it was black, with a stereotypical shape and first-half-of-20th-century sort of design featuring two dragons and the pearl of wisdom.



Subject:Re: Inscription cloisonne dragon vase
Posted By: Bill H Sun, Aug 23, 2015

This reads down as "Mongolian Autonomous State Government" (Meng gu zi zhi bang zheng fu - 蒙古自治邦政府). The Inner Mongolian Autonomous Region was declared under Chinese communist control in 1947, a couple of years before the People's Republic of China was declared. I believe that this mark refers to Inner Mongolia, but you may have to do some research on the subject to verify that assumption. Or maybe someone else in the forum might be able to clarify the point.

Best regards,

Bill H.

Subject:Thank you, Bill. An insight into the swirl of historic events.
Posted By: beadiste Mon, Aug 24, 2015

A pre-Liberation date makes it seem as if the more competent Beijing workshops were already producing commissions from the Red Army???

I am really kicking myself for not keeping a picture of this piece. Tch!!

Subject:Why?
Posted By: Super Sun, Aug 23, 2015

Sorry, but if you do not even own this vase or cannot even provide pictures of the complete piece, are there really any points in wasting other's time in translating it?

Please understand that I am not trying to be rude to you but recently there were more and more requests for translations in this forum, yet:

(1) Many of them did not provide any pictures;(not kidding)
(2) Many only provided partial pictures of the parts they wanted to be translated without posting pictures of the complete piece, therefore deprived the translators the necessary background info for an accurate translation and the enjoyment of the pieces. Please understand that it does take time to do a thorough translation and this is not intended to be a free translating service per se.
(3) Quality of some of the pieces are so bad or modern or some are just paper stickers/writings on the pieces that they wanted translations, did the posters believe the time of the translators were not valuable?
(4) The quality of the pictures they posted were very poor or too small/blurry to read;
(5) They do not even own the pieces, may be just see them on other sites such as eBay and want them to be translated. Why?

In short, I urge all translators in this forum to be more selective in what they would choose to translate in the future unless they have so much free time. Again, no pun intended.

Subject:Part of an ongoing research project
Posted By: beadiste Mon, Aug 24, 2015

I am sorry that I neglected to save a picture of this particular piece, as I'd very much like to see it again myself.
My interest is how the events of the 20th century affected Chinese cloisonne artistry. Works with inscriptions are few and far between, but offer clues as to what sort of government commissions the workshops were capable of filling, and what sorts of governments these pieces were produced under. Lao Tian Li's atelier, for example, was apparently required to produce medals, as was Yasuyuki Namikawa's atelier in Japan.

The link goes to a blog post I did about an inscription commissioned by the Warlord Feng Yuxiang.
Another post discusses pieces with a Yuan Shikai mark.
Do you want me to cross-post pictures of these pieces here, because not all internet systems are able to access Google Blogger?

Subject:Re: Why?
Posted By: Bill H Mon, Aug 24, 2015

Hi Super, I'd usually agree with you wholeheartedly but believe this poster, like yourself, has contributed much more than they've asked of the forum, so might be due a bit of slack in this area.

Sincerely,

Bill H.

Subject:Re: Why?
Posted By: rat Mon, Aug 24, 2015

Super I agree with your points for many of the other random posts here but think you are unfairly giving beadiste a hard time as s/he seems to be quite interested in 20th century cloisonne and has shown some uncommon pieces in other posts and makes a good effort to research them despite his/her lack of experience in Chinese. But yes, I am as annoyed as you are with other posters for the same reasons.

Subject:Perhaps the mods could add a short statement in the rules & regs?
Posted By: beadiste Tue, Aug 25, 2015

"Please post good pictures of the entire piece if you need translation of an inscription."

I can see why Super is exasperated. However, being rude and sarcastic to those who don't know as much as you do about something is punching down. Weak!

Plan B would be for the forum to offer a translation service for a $10 fee or something. Perhaps to help defray server and list maintenance costs.

Subject:Re: Perhaps the mods could add a short statement in the rules & regs?
Posted By: Super Wed, Aug 26, 2015

Please understand that I really did not intend to be rude to you and if I gave you that impression I would like to apologize. But lately there were a lot of "dealers" continued to post tons of inscriptions only, "demanding" for translations. My message was really to vent some of my frustrations toward them.

I also commend your recent post in requesting for more pictures. Good job and thanks.


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