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Subject:Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: Danny Sat, Jan 30, 2016 IP: 184.69.81.50

This jade bi is very glossy and smooth like glass. The color of this bi is light green and yellow. Very fine lines carved on both sides. Possible made in Han Dynasty.







Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: Ernest Wilhelm Sun, Jan 31, 2016

Not HAN.. sorry, but it looks like Obama dynasty.. good study piece
Ernest

Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: Danny Mon, Feb 01, 2016

Thank you for your comment!



Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: Danny Mon, Feb 01, 2016

Thank you for your comment Ernest! Please check the tool marks to see if done in modern machine.







Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: Ernest WILHELM Mon, Feb 01, 2016

My reply was: but it looks like Obama dynasty..
How do you translate that?
Ernest

Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: Danny Wed, Feb 03, 2016

Hi Ernest,
I Google it. Means don't bet on it. Am I right??

Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: Super Sun, Jan 31, 2016

Your pictures are really not good enough to tell too much about your piece but I do not like its tool marks which appeared to be modern. Better enlarged pictures would be needed.

Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: Danny Mon, Feb 01, 2016

Hi Super,
Here is some close up pictures for the tool marks!
Please see if it is old tor work or modern machine work. Thank you!







Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: Danny Mon, Feb 01, 2016

Hi Super,
Here is some micro pictures for the carving works a few hundred times. The lines is as thick as my hair. Please check if it is old work or modern work. Thank you







Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: Super Fri, Feb 05, 2016

I cannot say for sure but the carving lines just look a bit sloppy to me. I really do not believe it can be that old and is almost definitely not that of Han dynasty (that I am sure). Sorry and of course I can be wrong.

Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: Danny Sun, Feb 07, 2016

Hi Super,
Thank you for your comment!!

Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: pipane Wed, Feb 10, 2016

Hello There,

I would have to agree with Ernest on this one:
not nephrite, not old. This particular jade is Xiuyan jade (岫岩玉), modern carving, surface chemicals treatment. Not natural age patina.

What make you think it could be Han dynasty jade ? Was it sold to you as Han dynasty jade ? How much have you paid for it ? Was it bought in an antiquities shop?

I am asking this because jade was quite valuable at the time and Han dynasty jade aren't particularly cheap.

Jade type doesn't correspond to that period, carving too doesn't correspond to Han "clouds" carving style

B. regards,
P.


Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: Danny Thu, Feb 11, 2016

Hi there,
Thank you for your comments. This bi was a exchange with a friend. I like the design on this piece and very smooth to fondle and had a very oily feel. I looked at the carved lines and I think it was done by hand(tor work) not modern machine dental drill works. This bi scratch glass easily therefor nephrite possible.

Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: Super Thu, Feb 11, 2016

I beg to differ, the material appears to be nephrite jade, not xi yan jade or xi yu.

Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: Danny Sat, Feb 13, 2016

Yes Super, it is nephrite jade bi. And I don't think it was made in Obama dynasty as well!

Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: pipane Wed, Feb 17, 2016

Hi, Danny

is this jade type close enough ?

Xiuyan jade (and not xi yan or xi yu) from Dongbei and modern, xiuyan jade was only used during Neolithic Hs culture and modern times, during Han/zhan period xiuyan jaDe was not in use... your bi appears to be modern.

It is not about guessing, every period had his particular carving technology and style, this style does NOT correspond to any ancient carving techniques (or prove me wrong by checking any collection, book, musem, major auction ...)

if you need more hard evidence it is not nephrite, just test hardness with a needle, xiuyan jade is quite soft compared to nephrite and the needle should scratch it if applied hard enough.

No nephrite has that color...

It s a nice piece, but it is what it, is not what you think.

Regards,
P.



Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: Super Thu, Feb 18, 2016

The statement:
"Xiuyan jade (and not xi yan or xi yu) from Dongbei and modern, xiuyan jade was only used during Neolithic Hs culture and modern times, during Han/zhan period xiuyan jaDe was not in use."
is absolutely not true and it was simply confusing and misleading.

岫岩玉 Xiu Yan jade is the same thing as 岫玉 Xi Yu.
May be he got a bit confused? What did he think Xi Yu was? What did he think Xiu Yan 岫岩 mean (a place in Laoning)? A general term for serpentine? That would be 蛇紋岩

That is the problem when one cannot read Chinese and could easily get confused and drew the wrong conclusion.

It was indeed very difficult to differentiate xiu yan jade from nephrite jade with low resolution pictures alone because very often true color of jade would not be shown on pictures unless one can perform a scratch test and S.G. on the material to confirm.

The material of this bi, because of its luster, appears to me more possibly be made of nephrite than serpentine and a scratch test will not tell for sure. A S.G. test will need to be done. Of course, I do not believe it was Han dynasty either and had said so in my previous message. It was probably made with Qinghai nephrite jade which was mined on the other side of the Mt. Kunlun. I had seen similar material before. Now of course I could be wrong but I did test over 1,000 pieces of jade items, slabs and rocks. Danny can perform a specific gravity (SG) (density) test to confirm.

Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: Danny Sat, Feb 20, 2016

Thank you very much Super for your valuable information. What kind of tools do I need for S G test?? I know a little for S G test. Weight in air and weight in water.

Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: Danny Sat, Feb 20, 2016

Hello Pipane,
I will find out if this piece was nephrite or Xiuyan jade.I am going the S G test when I get the tools to do so. Again I believed the motif was not done with modern tools. Thank you for your comments on this bi. like Ernest said--good study piece!!

Subject:Re: Old Nephrite Jade Bi
Posted By: pipane Tue, Sep 20, 2016

Last try : it is not about guessing... This is modern tool marks.


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