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Subject:Rare large Neolithic/ bronze age turKoise bead
Posted By: pipane Thu, Feb 18, 2016 IP: 117.114.147.10

Collected in inner mongolia 38 mm...





Subject:Re: Rare large Neolithic/ bronze age turKoise bead
Posted By: Michael O Sun, Feb 21, 2016

It does look old but what makes it "Neolithic/ bronze age" ? How can you tell?

Subject:Re: Rare large Neolithic/ bronze age turKoise bead
Posted By: pipane Mon, Feb 22, 2016

I can tell because I studied...for long long time.

actually turkoise in China has long history, is well documented too. beads shapes and Perforation techniques are not the same along the ages... patina vary also depending of age and ambiant storage condition, this bead hAs been wear for 2000 + years, (like they pass precious beads to children and grand chikdren in Tibetans family, patina shows no sign of burial) it a kind of patina than can not be fake, turkoise also turn green with time. Aging can be fake (color) but not ancient natural patina.


Subject:Re: Rare large Neolithic/ bronze age turKoise bead
Posted By: Michael O Tue, Feb 23, 2016

So what you are saying is that it is more than 2000 years old because you say so. There is no scientific means to determine its age?

Sure, real patina cannot be faked and yes, the bead does look old, but 2000+ years old? How do you prove that? Why not 100 to 200 years?

You mention "bead shapes and perforation", do you have any examples of proven 2000+ year old "turKoise" beads for comparison or are there any published studies by experts?

Please do not be offended by my questions. I am just very keen to learn more about ancient beads, as a collector. Thank you.

Subject:Expert on turkoise (turquoise)?
Posted By: Super Wed, Feb 24, 2016

A very valid question, Michael. Unfortunately, pipane believed if he lived in China or Hong Kong long enough, talked to some of their jade dealers/collectors, went to some museums, jade shops, without reading any books written by renown experts, he would be able to learn everything he could about things he collected. He would impress you with terms like patina, perforation techniques to show his expertise. Unfortunately, I had met such experts in this forum before, with one who even wrote three books that were for sales in Amazon.com about jade and other subjects, the sad thing is he basically based his jade expertise on jades in his collection which are all fakes. Another one claimed he knew how to authenticate real Hongshan jades and I discovered that he was also a fruad. Sadly, most of them did not believe they need to study (books) and can learn everything from their collecting experience alone and they are very confident about their expertise. In this case, pipane even spelled turkoise wrong (should be turquoise) and did he know the Chinese name for it? Did he examine any authentic Neolithic turquoise beads in person? Did he even test and see if it was real turquoise? Where did he learn about perforation techniques? The problem is you can pick up any piece of turquoise and it can be thousands years old, yet how did you confirm when it was made into a bead? That would be the 64 million dollar question. Sadly, without spending a lot of time or money (good books are not cheap) in studying the subject, it would be just his "expert" opinion rendered by him, just like he had recently appraised a white jade brush washer posted in this forum by Danny as that of Qing dynasty 300+ years old without knowing that it was simply not possible. I did write a message in explaining to him why his dating was dead wrong, not based on my personal opinions and/or collecting experience but rather quoting one of the most respected jade experts in China, Mr. Yang Boda. One cannot be an expert in any collecting fields without spending a lot of precious time and money in their hobby. I have been collecting Hong Kong and British Commonwealth coins my whole life and yet there are still a lot I do not know. For anybody to pretend he is an expert just from his own collecting experience, IMHO, is simply laughable. Please understand I am not saying that I do know more about jade than pipane or any people here. I don't but there are things about jade that I may know but pipane did not and vice versa. To be condescending to other collectors in order to show one's supremacy, to me is simply not how most experts in any fields will act. How did I know? I work with Nobel prize winners in my organization and they are all very humble people and you would never guess they had accomplished so much already.

Subject:Re: Expert on turkoise (turquoise)?
Posted By: pipane Tue, Jun 14, 2016

Thank you super for your deep comment. It made my smile for the day :)

Nicely put I recommend you to talk to some knowledgeable ancient beads experts and come again...there are many available on the net...

I'd be happy to recommend you some world class experts but would you take their or my advise...?

Keep digging... you might find what you're looking for.

Just a hint :http://www.ancientbead.com/index.php ml....

Cheers


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