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Subject:Inscriptions on 2 Chinese paintings
Posted By: Jay Cutler MVP Wed, May 18, 2016 IP: 93.205.230.140


Hi,

I would be grateful if someone could translate
the following Chinese inscriptions for me.

Thanks





Subject:Re: Inscriptions on 2 Chinese paintings
Posted By: rat Thu, May 19, 2016

first one is low quality and claiming to be by Zhang Daqian, second one looks like an actual painting by someone surnamed Zhang, please post photos of the picture.

Subject:Re: Inscriptions on 2 Chinese paintings
Posted By: Jay Cutler MVP Fri, May 20, 2016


Hi,
thanks for the reply.

Actually I think the first painting was done quite well. Only downside may be the condition: Some spots with loss of color and numerous creases all over the place.

Zhang Daqian? Well I guess that would be a stunner. lol
When I bought the painting it was not attributed to him (or any other artist)though.

However the painting looks older than the 20th century in my opinion but I could be wrong.

I hope the quality of the pictures is good enough.







Subject:Re: Inscriptions on 2 Chinese paintings
Posted By: rat Sat, May 21, 2016

thank you. the last two characters of the inscription read 大千 or daqian, but this is a fabrication. it is trying to be an early work of Zhang's in the style of Dong Yuan through the lens of Qing? versions of Huang Gongwang. paper has been dyed, calligraphy does not resemble Zhang's.

the other picture is 1990s or more recent, in traditional style. actually it's dated spring 2005.

Subject:Re: Inscriptions on 2 Chinese paintings
Posted By: Jay Cutler MVP Fri, May 20, 2016

The second painting could be more recent just from the style and looks.

But I have no clue, I had picked it up with the first painting. Not really interested in this one at first but in the end I decided to take the chance as the price was quite low.







Subject:Re: Inscriptions on 2 Chinese paintings
Posted By: Super Sat, May 21, 2016

Agree with rat, second one is much better than the first one.

Subject:Re: Inscriptions on 2 Chinese paintings
Posted By: Jay Cutler MVP Sun, May 22, 2016


Thanks a lot for the information/opinions.

So what would be the best way to describe the first painting?
Style of Zhang Daqian after Dong Yuan?

Well that is quite confusing. lol

Seriously: Basically an artist of the 20th century has imitated the works of Dong Yuan but instead of writing down his own name he has attributed the painting to Zhang Daqian?


About the second painting:
Is there a way to find out who the painter could be? (the inscription does not show a full name?)

@rat: Are you also able to read Chinese seal script?



Subject:Re: Inscriptions on 2 Chinese paintings
Posted By: John Rohrer Tue, May 24, 2016

Zhang Daqian was the ultimate master of creating a dynamic energy within his landscapes.
When the subject was a scholar within that landscape, the elements of that composition,
meaning, the trees, the rocks, the water and the sky all respond to that central compositional idea.
The first painting that you presented is weak in brushwork, weak in performance, and totally
wrong in signature.
It basically has absolutely nothing
to attach it to Zhang Daqian.

Subject:Re: Inscriptions on 2 Chinese paintings
Posted By: Rat Thu, May 26, 2016

Easiest way to categorize it for you is "bad fake", artistically for the reasons John pointed out. The actual artist seems to have had the idea of creating a picture that refers back to very recognizable aesthetic styles. Artists such as Zhang Daqian, and Zhang had particular interest in Dong Yuan, would have painted this sort of thing early in their careers and perhaps returned to it from time to time thereafter, but again as John points out this picture has zero real connection to Zhang other than the two characters at the end of the inscription that are pretending to be his signature. Stylistically it combines Dong Yuan and Huang Gongwang tropes with an early compositional style, all filtered through the lens of the Four Wangs. But artistically it's just unappealing. Look at more genuine pictures for comparison. The other picture is a commercial/decorative work, more an homage to Chinese landscape painting tradition than anything else.

Some of us can read seal script yes, but it's easy to get stuck sometimes

Subject:Re: Inscriptions on 2 Chinese paintings
Posted By: Mr. Lau Mon, May 30, 2016

"Bad Fake"? What is a bad fake, copy, and reproduction. A lot of people say Zhang copyed famous artist art's work, but I have not seen the Original works from the copyed artist's. Now if Zhang did copy orther artist' Original art painting and not sign be Zhang. Then that a is "forgery". And is against the Law! I don't think Zhang would like to be a criminal. They are alot of fakes and "Zhang" was also a fake. When Zhang was still alive his own paintings were worthless and many people turn down free paintings that Zhang were offering to friends,family,and etc's. They are a lot of Zhang's art paintings been sold at auction's. Not one paintings are from close friends and relatives.

Subject:What kind of naive comments?
Posted By: Super Tue, May 31, 2016

"Mr. Lau" or whoever you are:

In this Amazon.com kindle book:

The World of Daqian: Zhang Daqian's life and arts
大千的世界:张大千的生活与艺术 (Chinese Edition) Kindle
Edition
by 唐璐 (Author)

https://www.amazon.com/x5927-x5343-x7684-x4E16-Chinese-ebook/dp/B00MO6UTBI/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1464726575&sr=1-1&keywords=%E5%A4%A7%E5%8D%83%E7%9A%84%E4%B8%96%E7%95%8C%EF%BC%9A%E5%BC%A0%E5%A4%A7%E5%8D%83%E7%9A%84%E7%94%9F%E6%B4%BB%E4%B8%8E%E8%89%BA%E6%9C%AF+%28Chinese+Edition%29

It clearly described how Zhang had imitated many art works by famous ancient or modern (at that time) Chinese artists when he was young, fooled a lot of experts and sold some of them for a lot of money.

While I cannot prove everything being said in this book was 100% accurate but it was actually pretty common for many Chinese artists to imitate other artists' works, to the point that almost 90% of the famous Chinese artworks for sales are "fakes" or "imitations"

I am kind of surprised to hear your comments:
"Then that a is "forgery". And is against the Law! I don't think Zhang would like to be a criminal. They are alot of fakes and "Zhang" was also a fake."

Are you defending Zhang or bashing him?

To me that is kind of naive. What laws? In China during the 40s? Who would enforce them?

Your comments "When Zhang was still alive his own paintings were worthless" and "They are a lot of Zhang's art paintings been sold at auction's. Not one paintings are from close friends and relatives" are absolutely not true. Zhang himself held a lot of auctions of his own paintings when he was still alive and a lot of them sold for very high prices then and were in great demands.

I do not understand the motive of your post and in using a Chinese last name. I cannot believe with such naive comments you can indeed be a Chinese. You are indeed a 井底之蛙,Pun intended.





Subject:Re: What kind of naive comments?
Posted By: rat Wed, Jun 01, 2016

More information on Zhang's forgeries is a chapter in Shen Fu and Jan Stuart, "Challenging the Past: The Paintings of Zhang Dai-ch'ien".

James Cahill also spent time accumulating a list of works he felt were Zhang forgeries: http://jamescahill.info/the-writings-of-james-cahill/chang-ta-chiens-forgeries/211-chang-ta-chiens-forgeries

The British Museum and the Boston Museum of Fine Arts are two museums to acknowledge their purchase of paintings that Zhang forged in the style of Dong Yuan etc.

While Zhang himself was a prolific painter, there are also a huge number of fakes of his own work.



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