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Subject:Ancestral Royalty Carving of Emperor and Empress
Posted By: John Fosket Mon, Nov 13, 2017 IP: 97.95.174.92

I purchased these carvings which have incredible quality and very intricate detailing. They have Asian language on both bottoms. They are seated on carved rosewood (I believe rosewood)stands. There is a brass plaque on the bottom of both stands and the plaque has a long since closed antique dealer in New York. I need help translating the signatures or language on the bottom of the carvings as shown in the pictures, Please.
Thank you in advance. They are about 17 inches high.







Subject:Re: Ancestral Royalty Carving of Emperor and Empress
Posted By: Bokaba Tue, Nov 14, 2017

These are probably resin or bone applique. Probably mid 20th Century at the earliest.

Bokaba

Subject:Re: Ancestral Royalty Carving of Emperor and Empress
Posted By: John Fosket Wed, Nov 15, 2017

A reputable antique dealer in Detroit said they were ivory. Is that possible?

Could you decipher the inscription on the bottom?

Subject:Re: Ancestral Royalty Carving of Emperor and Empress
Posted By: JLim Wed, Nov 15, 2017



Dear Mr Fosket

The inscription says Qianlong, an emperor of the 18th century.

Could you do a hot needle test to determine if this is resin? I am no expert, but I believe it involves heating a needle to red heat, and then attempting to check if it will melt the object, in an inconspicuous corner obviously.

Kind regards
J.Lim

Subject:Re: Ancestral Royalty Carving of Emperor and Empress
Posted By: Bokaba Wed, Nov 15, 2017

I don't think they are ivory. The base is made out of pieces of bones put together called "applique." The mark says Qianlong, but the pair is not very old. Thousands if not millions of these pairs were made for the tourist market since the 1950s.

Bokaba

Subject:Re: Ancestral Royalty Carving of Emperor and Empress
Posted By: Stan Wed, Nov 15, 2017

Highly unlikely that they are one piece of ivory. That would be one BIG elephant. If they are 17" tall, it looks like the width is at least 8". That is a very thick tusk. And the base would have Schreger lines, which I don't see. See link below.

I saw a similar pair made of small pieces of bone (about 3/4" by 1.5") applied to a substrate. If it is ivory, I expect you would see seams where pieces are joined. If it is resin, a red hot needle will melt into it.

Cheers,
Stan

URL Title :Identify Ivory


Subject:Re: Ancestral Royalty Carving of Emperor and Empress
Posted By: John Fosket Wed, Nov 15, 2017

Thank you. I know it is not from a solid piece of ivory, if it even is ivory, because you can see seams where pieces are joined together.

Subject:Re: Ancestral Royalty Carving of Emperor and Empress
Posted By: John Fosket Thu, Nov 16, 2017

Hot needle did not affect the figure.

Subject:Re: Ancestral Royalty Carving of Emperor and Empress
Posted By: JLim Thu, Nov 16, 2017



Just to clarify, the original poster did not actually claim that the object was ivory, but received advice that it was from someone else.

John, if the needle did not melt the object, then it only remains to determine if it is bone or ivory. Someone other than me would have to help you with that!

Kind regards
J.Lim

Subject:Re: Ancestral Royalty Carving of Emperor and Empress
Posted By: John Fosket Fri, Nov 17, 2017

That is correct. I took it to a reputable auction house in Detroit. They informed me they would not offer for auction because it was ivory and that they had recently been scrutinized for sales of ivory without proof of provenance. They did not even look at the bottom of the rosewood stands with the name of the Antique Store in New York that had closed many years earlier. They said items like this had auctioned at very high prices some years ago but proof of provenance should be obtained.
I thank everyone for their input.

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Subject:Re: Ancestral Royalty Carving of Emperor and Empress
Posted By: John Fosket Fri, Nov 17, 2017

J Lim would you mind looking at the message board if you get time? On November 13 I posted a question about an oil on canvas. I would like any info I can get about the artist or the painting. It is signed but I cannot translate it. I was also wondering if it is dated.

Thank you in advance for any info you might provide.





Subject:Re: Ancestral Royalty Carving of Emperor and Empress
Posted By: Randimal Fri, Nov 17, 2017

You can also check by focusing a flash light or a torch towards a thin area of the figure. If its resin it would probably even in color. But its ivory, its natural and you will not find the color distributed evenly with the flash light.


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