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Subject:19th century vase - Is this Nonya ware?
Posted By: JLim Tue, Nov 14, 2017 IP: 101.164.192.17


Dear all

Several years ago I found the pictured vase in a rural antique shop near Sydney. It cost me about 100 Australian dollars. It is undamaged apart from a large chip in the rim which has been amateurishly repaired with white plaster.

Height: 43.5 cm.

I was struck by the strong iridescence in the green enamels on this object, as well as the rough 19th century style footrim. (I have attempted to show the iridescence in the below images, but this is difficult to achieve. It is the strongest and most colourful iridescence I have seen in old enamel).

Since then I have speculated that this is likely to be late 19th century Nonya ware porcelain.

My reasons for thinking so are based on the two bizarrely coloured Qi dragons visible in the images, as well as the green mother and baby foo dog playing ball with each other forming the handles of the vase. These closely resemble nonya wares; in particular the vase on p100 of Ho Wing Meng's "Straits Chinese Porcelain" has identical Qi dragons, albeit in pale blue, and also has reptilian-green foo dogs playing with red balls as its handles.

However, the remainder of the vase generally lacks the eye-scorching palette of Nonya wares, and looks more like generic famille rose of the Guangxu era.

I note that similar mother-and-child foo dogs and Qi dragons, albeit in brown clay, are shown on three vases on p186-7 of Allen's latest book, classified as late 19th century famille rose, not nonya. On p246 of the same book, the same menagerie, albeit in gilt, is on a vase classified as Cantonese famille rose c. 1873.

On the other hand, the same book at p194 depicts a vase with quite a similar general paint scheme - particularly the flowers - dated early 20th century (Fig 22.1.2(a)).

What I would like to know is, how old is this vase? And should it be classified as Nonya ware, or just generic famille rose?

More pictures to follow shortly. Thank you in advance for your help.

Kind regards
J.Lim







Subject:Re: 19th century vase - Is this Nonya ware?
Posted By: JLim Wed, Nov 15, 2017



Further pictures.







Subject:Re: 19th century vase - Is this Nonya ware?
Posted By: JLim Wed, Nov 15, 2017



Further pictures.







Subject:Re: 19th century vase - Is this Nonya ware?
Posted By: Bill H Wed, Nov 15, 2017

The term 'Nonya' I believe, refers to the indigenous wives of Chinese who went to Straits communities, beginning in Ming times, to set up porcelain trading businesses, which usually were tended in China by the other wives left behind by the emigrant Chinese entrepreneur. The classic Nonya pattern is defined by the phoenix and peony pattern. (see photos. The teapot's signed 'Made by Cheng Yitai').

Your vase has no phoenix, and the remainder of the decoration is on a funereal white ground, which might be noticed as inauspicious by some Chinese. Also the base, in its thick coating of white glaze with splashes high on the inner foot, bears evidence of having been re-glazed, which is something done by a decorating factory prior to applying transfers. The foo dogs and dragons, which often were gilded on 19th century export wares, look to me like they're more in the early 20th century style. But just one guy's opinion.

Best regards,

Bill H





Subject:Re: 19th century vase - Is this Nonya ware?
Posted By: JLim Thu, Nov 16, 2017



Dear Bill

Thanks a lot, I can now classify this as early 20th century famille rose.

Kind regards
J.Lim

Subject:Re: 19th century vase - Is this Nonya ware?
Posted By: Michael O Thu, Nov 16, 2017

Hi Bill H,
Your theory referring to the Nonya as "indigenous wives of Chinese who went to Straits communities, beginning in Ming times, to set up porcelain trading businesses, which usually were tended in China by the other wives left behind by the emigrant Chinese entrepreneur" is interesting but only partly accurate.

The Chinese were coming to South East Asia long before the Ming times but waves of merchants and traders came following Zheng He's voyages. Those who stayed and married indigenous women in Malaya and Indonesia formed local communities called Peranakan whose men were referred to as Baba and women were Nyonya.

Of course, the Straits did not exist during the Ming times. The Straits Settlement came about after the founding of Penang and Singapore and was a creation of the British in early 19th century. During this time, the English-educated middle-class Peranakans were also referred to as "Straits Chinese".

As such, Ho Wing Meng's use of the term "Straits Chinese Porcelain" was more accurate as such porcelain occurred only from mid-19th century to early Republic period.

The Peranakan culture is very colourful with its own style of dressings, unique patios and cuisines. To learn and experience more about the unique Peranakans, you should pay a visit to some wonderful Peranakan museums in Penang, Malacca and Singapore.

The attached pictures come from my personal archive.





Subject:Re: 19th century vase - Is this Nonya ware?
Posted By: Bill H Fri, Nov 24, 2017

Michael, your comment and photos are welcome, though all I'd hoped would come from my input here was how the essential Nonya "phoenix & peony" pattern is rooted in feminine iconography.

Your response seems to imply my attempt to support that goal with a compressed recollection of factual citations by Author Ho Wing Meng in his book may have missed the intended target. At the very least, I should clarify that nothing I said was my personal theory. Instead, maybe we have a philosophical difference over what participants in the forum should seek to accomplish. In my case, I believe it isn't going to do the poster of a query any good if we answer it with a volume of prepackaged research. Instead, I think a minimal amount of information, a road map if you will, sometimes is better to help the poster learn how to conduct their own research and have it stick with them.

Nevertheless, your response intrigued me enough to look at my source again. But I still find Ho Wing Meng apparently citing local ancestral records of "Baba" families with Fujian roots who have been living in the Malacca area since the beginning of the Ming dynasty. He also mentions Portuguese records that are a basis for sourcing the origins of Baba-Nonya Culture to Chinese unions with indigenous women in Malacca, of which area the well-known Straits of Malacca, which have been where they are since before humans walked the earth, are eponymous now with "Straits Chinese".

Thnk you for the suggestion, but I have, in fact, made several visits to Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia during an almost two decades stay in Asia, one journey by train from Chiang Mai, Thailand to Kuala Lumpur, then by hire car to Malacca, and finally by local jitney bus to Singapore, with side visits to local points of interest en route; Batu caves anyone? The hire car to Malacca was shared with a young lady of Chinese-Malay ancestry who worked at what I recall to be the Hotel Metro in KL, in which establishment her parents in Malacca had a financial stake. She offered a firsthand account of the area's culture and history during the drive and provided suggestions of local historical sites to visit, principally at the time including the ruins of the ancient Portuguese St. Paul's church. So you might say, I have a certain amount of "been there, done that" under my belt.

As such, I'm inclined to leave my oversimplified point as is and let anyone else with questions just read the book, and may the edification fall wherever it might find an absorbent landing spot.

Best regards,

Bill H.

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Subject:Re: 19th century vase - Is this Nonya ware?
Posted By: JLim Sat, Nov 25, 2017



I am personally a Nonya, at least on my mother's side. My mother's family left Quanzhou in Fujian around the year 1800 (Jiaqing's reign), settling in the Dutch East Indes. They absorbed the Nonya culture.

My father's family left the obscure mountain village of Shiyan in Fujian around the year 1890 (Guangxu's reign) and became rubber growers in British Malaya. They did not absorb the Nonya culture.

Even on my mother's side, my grandfather was a bit less Nonya than my grandmother. So I expect it was not just a question of being Chinese in Southeast Asia but also of how much you absorbed Nonya culture.

Kind regards
J.Lim

Subject:Re: 19th century vase - Is this Nonya ware?
Posted By: Michael O Sun, Nov 26, 2017

Hi Bill H,
I was tempted to leave it as it is as I have the greatest respect for you. You have such a tremendous amount of knowledge of Chinese porcelain and has been very generous in sharing your knowledge with many people in this forum.

I apologise if I have come across as being rude. I just wanted to provide some more information on the very colorful culture of the Nyonya and if by doing so, I have projected a philosophical difference, it was definitely not intentional.

Just as you had, in many instances, corrected many poster' incorrect assertions on the dating and statements on porcelain, my intention was only to try to correct statements which I saw were inaccurate.

For example, I need to correct your reference to the Straits in "Straits Chinese" as the Straits of Malacca. The Straits Chinese actually referred to the Peranakan (as well as other mainly English educated, anglophile Chinese) living in the British Straits Settlements comprising Penang, Malacca and Singapore.

I understand that this is a art forum, not a historical society discussion board. But history provides art the platform and I only felt compelled to make sure that the historical platform in this context is set right.

Thank you for your patience with me.


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