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Subject:Reign Mark - Iron Censer
Posted By: Fri, May 18, 2012 IP: 41.132.254.15
Dear All,

I know it is very difficult looking at the images I post but I would appreciate help with a mark on an Iron Censer - the mark is very worn and difficult to photograph - I have tried to make rubbings but these dont work.

Bill and Rat hope you are looking.

Thanks and Regards
JJ







Subject:Re: Reign Mark - Iron Censer
Posted By: Sat, May 19, 2012 IP: 184.3.246.154
The first two characters read from the left as 'Xuande', a Ming reign period. I'm unsure of how the mark winds up. Would usually be the 'year' and 'made' characters, but I'm at a loss to see them here. Hopefully Rat can decipher them.

Best regards,

Bill H.

Subject:Re: Reign Mark - Iron Censer
Posted By: Sun, May 20, 2012 IP: 173.76.229.184
I got about as far as you Bill, the first photo is upside down, the second photo reads "Xuande x x" from right to left, almost certainly the last two characters are "nian zhi". the censer is almost certainly make within the past few decades; hundreds and hundreds of them have this Xuande mark (although usually not in such a florid archaic script) because the Xuande reign is associated with a recent high point in Chinese metalcasting.

Subject:Re: Reign Mark - Iron Censer
Posted By: Mon, May 21, 2012 IP: 41.177.76.253
Thanks Rat, excuse my ignorance but "Nian Zhi" would indicate what? Shall I post an image of the entire piece and you can give me an opinion?

Much appreciated
Regards
JJ

Subject:Re: Reign Mark - Iron Censer
Posted By: Mon, May 21, 2012 IP: 199.94.42.170
yes, please post images of the entire piece.

"nian" means "year", or in this case "years", and specifically it means "during the reign of" because it follows Xuande, which is the name of the reign period (1399-1435) of the Ming emperor whose actual name was Zhu Zhanji.

"zhi" means "manufactured" or "made".

So: "made during the Xuande reign". However, these characters have been cast on countless bronze vessels since that time.

Subject:Re: Reign Mark - Iron Censer
Posted By: Tue, May 22, 2012 IP: 41.132.254.15
Thanks very much Rat, I will try to post images tomorrow.

Best Wishes
JJ

Subject:Re: Reign Mark - Iron Censer
Posted By: Sun, May 20, 2012 IP: 41.132.254.15
Thanks very much Bill, knew I would get something from you. I belive the piece is Ming indeed, it does have enough wear and the style is right.

Best
JJ

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Subject:Re: Reign Mark - Iron Censer
Posted By: Tue, May 22, 2012 IP: 184.3.246.154
Wish I could bolster your optimism, but Xuande is the most reproduced mark on subsequent generations of Chinese metal castings. A real savant would be needed to authenticate the one on your censer.

Good luck,

Bill H.

Subject:Re: Reign Mark - Iron Censer
Posted By: Thu, May 24, 2012 IP: 41.132.254.15
Hi Rat and Bill,

As promised herewith photos - I had to cut them in order to load some areas with detail. The wear and patina is really good but difficult to photograph - look forward to your thoughts.

Thanks again
JJ





Subject:Re: Reign Mark - Iron Censer
Posted By: Fri, May 25, 2012 IP: 41.132.254.15
Another image in daylight.

Thanks
JJ



Subject:Re: Reign Mark - Iron Censer
Posted By: Wed, May 30, 2012 IP: 173.76.229.184
hm. thanks for the pictures, I am not optimistic about this one, seems crudely cast, but other people know more about bronzes than I do.

Subject:Re: Reign Mark - Iron Censer
Posted By: Mon, Jun 04, 2012 IP: 41.133.60.33
Thanks Rat, appreciate your time. As the censer is made from iron is it not possible that the casting would not be as fine as a bronze example - also iron is a lot more prone to rust and other damage? I have a lot of respect for your opinion and thanks again.

Best
JJ

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