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Subject:Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Fri, Apr 19, 2013 IP: 218.212.242.167

I think this piece is a male dragon. My observations from my collection of C dragons is this - when the carver creates a pair of C dragons, it distinguishes the male dragon and the female dragon by carvings and reliefs on the chin of the C dragon.

Has anyone ever heard of this suggestion before or am I the first person to bring this hypothesis up for discussion?

I am new in this forum. I discovered this forum about 2 weeks ago. I started collecting jade pieces from 1993 to 2000. I stop collecting archaic jade in 2000.



Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Sun, Apr 21, 2013

Can anyone appreciate this piece? Height 15cm. A Chinese national brought this piece to my home in 1994 or 1995. It was quite long ago so I could not recall the exact date. I loved this one although none of the people I know who have seen it could appreciate it.



Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Mon, Apr 22, 2013

Length 15cm.




Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: adam Tue, Apr 23, 2013

none of these are genuine...Generally hongshan pieces have gem like lustre, and those from lioning province are very distingishable for different reasons... Regarding those horrible red patches of fake qi-sin they are only seen on fakes from the last 20 years...
sorry

Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Wed, Apr 24, 2013

Height 15cm. No hole. When I get a piece which I believed to be correct, but unusual, like this one with no hole, I would still collect and keep them for analysis. Why was the hole not there? The owner died before it was finished, and the carver has not enough time to make the hole?

I hate trolls who post idiotic comments although I know their opinion is non of my business. The only reason a collector like me can get to collect beautiful Hongshan sculptures at bargain prices is because of the ignorance of others. If you have a similar piece in your collection, and are willing to part with it, show it to me. I think some pig dragons were made in pairs, one female, one male.

I have 4 pig dragons. They are not readily available. My two runners from China went looking for these artifacts throughout China for about 7 years and they got only 3 pieces. One stunning pig dragon was from another source, a China Chinese who brought it to my home a long time ago, and spent 3 hours telling me what it is.




Subject:Better Pictures of The Bird Dragon/Totem Above
Posted By: Jac Wed, Nov 13, 2013

I have learned that this 15cm Hongshan Culture green nephrite sculpture is probably not a pig dragon as it has no ears. Perhaps this is a bird dragon.







Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Wed, Apr 24, 2013

Height 13cm. This piece has a nice shinny lustre. All the pieces I have posted here has a nice lustre on the areas where it is not affected by prolonged weathering.

Look at the pictures of the excavated Hongshan artifacts in this website. Some has nice lustre, some don't.

http://guwan58.blog.163.com/blog/static/182767920201042701023566/



Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Mon, Jun 10, 2013

The first image below is that of a Hongshan Culture artifact in a museum in China, described as (Google translation of Chinese text):

Y-shaped jade Animal Mask. Length 12.1 cm, width 4.1 cm, thickness 0.9 cm. 1981 Liaoning Province Fuxin County Fuxing unearthed. Liaoning Provincial Museum.

The next two pictures show the front and back of a similar artifact that I have posted on this thread. Height 15 cm (not 13 cm as stated in my post on Arp 24). Width about 4cm at the centre, thickness approximately 1.5cm. The material appears to be light green nephrite (my opinion).

The presence of a layer of transparent lustrous glass like substance all over the surface of this jade sculpture plus the presence of shinny metallic patches indicate that this piece is unlikely to be a modern copy.

Its shape is rounder compared with the example from the museum (first top image). It is my opinion that jades sculptures of the early Hongshan culture is rounder with less incised lines/ridges and is more refined with better workmanship compared with the jade sculptures from the late Hongshan period found at the Niuheliang sites.

While I am just a collector with a just a little knowledge, allow me to just give my opinion as to what this artifact could be used for, by the Hongshan Culture people. It is an emblem of authority, possibly the first form of the jade "gui" ritual tablet of the later Chinese cultures.

The rarity of this type of Hongshan Culture artifact (only one in museums in China?) provides some logical explanation to this "emblem of some authority" theory of mine as only one person in a tribe/kingdom would own an artifact like this.

Please do not get angry or upset if you do not agree with my opinion. Present a better theory as to what this artifact represents or is used for, for us to ponder.







Subject:Western Mexico Shaft Tomb Ceramic Figurines
Posted By: Jac Sat, Oct 19, 2013

The image of two shaft tomb ceramic figures from western Mexico (http://archaeology.org/issues/107-features/tattoos//1357-mexico-jalisco-nayarit-colima) are shown here to show an artifact held by the figure on the left.

Is it just a coincidence that the tomb figurine carries an "emblem" that look like an artifact of the Hongshan Culture?






URL Title :Western Mexico Shaft Tomb Ceramic Figurines


Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: xisco Tue, Sep 17, 2013

are you expert in hongshan I am from Spain and I have I figure from 1975.. from my father..

Subject:I Am Not An Expert On Archaic Jade
Posted By: Jac Wed, Sep 18, 2013

Hi Xisco,

I am a collector, a learning collector, a student of archaic jades. I am not an expert in Hongshan jades. I am not a qualified appraiser of Hongshan culture artifacts and I will not attempt to authenticate Hongshan culture sculptures that I do not own.

I am sorry I am unable to assist you with any form of inquiry relating to the authenticity your Hongshan figure from your father.

Subject:I Am Not An Expert On Archaic Jade
Posted By: Jac Wed, Sep 18, 2013

Hi Xisco,

I am a collector, a learning collector, a student of archaic jades. I am not an expert in Hongshan jades. I am not a qualified appraiser of Hongshan culture artifacts. I could only give my opinion on Hongshan culture sculptures that I can touch and examine under 30X to 60X magnification.


Subject:Re: I Am Not An Expert On Archaic Jade
Posted By: xisco Fri, Sep 20, 2013

Thanks for your comments

Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Wed, Apr 24, 2013

"O" shaped pig dragon. 13cm.

Experienced Hongshan collectors would know whether a piece is worth keeping as soon as they hold it in their hands.



Subject:Better Pictures of The O Shaped Bird Dragon
Posted By: Jac Wed, Nov 13, 2013

This is obviously not an "O" shaped pig dragon as stated in my post above as this Hongshan Culture totem has no pig ears and looked more like a bird. A Bi shaped bird totem, perhaps.







Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Wed, Apr 24, 2013

In my opinion, this C dragon shown here in is a female dragon.

http://news.cultural-china.com/20101104090748.html

URL Title :Female C Dragon


Subject:Dongguaiibanggou jade dragon
Posted By: Jac Sat, Aug 17, 2013

I created this post to highlight a mistake I made on this post:

Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Wed, Apr 24, 2013 IP: 58.185.241.138

I saw a vague picture of a c shaped pig dragon and incorrectly assumed that the base of its jaw has 3 lines. I came across a bigger, more detailed picture of the same C shaped dragon at this website:

http://www.cpr.cuhk.edu.hk/en/press_detail.php?id=1244

The enlarged pictures of this Dongguaiibanggou jade dragon are shown below.

This C shaped dragon appears to have lattice lines carved on the bottom surface of its jaw/mouth. I have suggested that rhombic lattice lines represent a male C shaped dragon.

The article stated that this C shaped dragon is "The earliest known jade dragon in China, which was dated to approximately 6,000 years ago, was found in Dongguaibanggou, Inner Mongolia."

While I believed no archaic jade items can ever be real to a collector or appraiser unless they are handled, images like these can help collectors learn how to spot the real items from the fakes.






URL Title :CUHK Hosts Exhibition on the Origins of Dragons


Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: William Mon, Dec 09, 2013

Let's stop perpetuating mis-information.

There are no female Dragons.

All Dragons are male.

Opinions are fine. Everyone has one.

But opinions, to be valid, should be backed with correct knowledge gained from serious study.

There should also be some logic applied

Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: JDP Sun, Aug 17, 2014

How would you explain this then? Kissing Dragons? Double C Dragon?



Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Wed, Apr 24, 2013

In my opinion, this C dragon shown here in is a male dragon.

http://www.ln110.com.cn/culture/js/2011/0330/11055.html

URL Title :Male C Dragon


Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Kevin Martin Sat, Apr 27, 2013

From your insulting comments and your questionable jades ( to say the least ) you should have stopped collecting in 1993.
I don't understand people like you who post fakes on this forum and have attitude at the same time.
What makes you tick ?

Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Sat, Apr 27, 2013

Sorry for the spelling mistakes in my previous post.

The pictures of Hongshan sculptures that I posted here are original artworks, not modern copies. I share what I have for like minded Hongshan collectors to enjoy, compare, analyze and discuss. If I need appraisal, I will send them to qualified experts. If I need authentication, I will have to ask the person who carved the sculpture or the person who removed it from its original resting place, if I can find them.

Modern copies of archaic jade carvings are not that difficult to identify as they are mass produced and easily available.

Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: xie xiang Sun, Apr 28, 2013

I really appreciate you posting those pictures of your collection. Given the amount of fakes out there and a wide array of self proclaimed expert out there in this space its easy for one to shout fake. I dont want to write a lot about my knowledge in this space and convince anyone, but I say this its hard for me to call those pieces fake. I love those pictures and I I really would love to see them in person. Jac, thanks a lot of sharing your collection.. you have something very cloae to the real ones I have seen so far.. envy your collection.

Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Ernest Wilhelm Sun, Apr 28, 2013

The first picture shows 2 carvings, each has a different color, but the brown "burial" colors are identical. That is impossible !! ...never mind the other really crummy ones ...
Secondly, about 300 Hongshan carvings were found, while there are now about 3 Million of them in the world market...
You can fool some people some of the time....
Ernest

Subject:Sharper Pictures
Posted By: Jac Thu, Jul 30, 2015

Sharper photos of this 15 cm high original Hongshan Culture masterpiece.

Do you know what it feels like to hold a sculpture like this with your bare hands?






Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Fri, Jun 07, 2013

Additional pictures of the same upright bird/owl to show the Hongshan Culture "signature" vortex eye and the original material chosen to shape this masterpiece. It is dark green nephrite, of the highest quality. Based on the size, quality of the material used and the impeccable workmanship of this sculpture, I believed its owner is a very high ranking person in the early Hongshan Culture community.

Natural shinny metallic spots/patches all over the surface of this original Hongshan Culture sculpture.







Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: William Mon, Dec 09, 2013

Hello My Jade Friend,

What is represented is the Spirit Bird.

Chinese myth states the Spirit Bird was the
only animal that could leave earth and enter Heaven.

The Spirit Bird could carry messages to the spirit world; blessings, questions,etc.

It could not return messages to earth.

Your statue is from the Hongshan Culture, 4700-2500 BC.

Your statue is Late Hongshan Culture, c.2000 BC.

I have studied and collected ancient Chine jade
carvings for more than 15 years.

Yours is a genuine artifact. It shows the proper
signs of age which attests to its neolithic origin.

You'll find, as I have, that 'very few' people
really know anything about ancient jades.

That includes antique dealers, curators and high-end auctions houses.

Learning about ancient jades takes a lifetime of
study which most persons don't wish to endure.

If anyone you take a jade to for qualification, and that person wants to do a 'scratch test' to
determine it is or isn't jade, run away as fast as you can. Right off, I know that person is ignorant about jade.

The 'scratch test' has been perpetuated by
amateurs for many, many years. It serves no
purpose and only ends up marring a good carved jade.

Just think about it. If it can't be scratched, it
can't be carved.

All jade can be scratched

Good Luck,

William
from Connecticut


Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Mon, Apr 29, 2013

Look at those huge C dragons shown in the video found in this link:

http://english.cctv.com/program/cultureexpress/20100318/101093.shtml

In the mid 1990's , two huge C dragons flew from China and landed in Singapore but no collectors here welcomed them into their home. We all thought they were copies. A collector from Macau took them away.

One stunningly beautiful knee height C dragon found its way to my apartment in Singapore through another Chinese national. This large C dragon has been with me for about 18 years. Does not look new, has age marks all over its body, mane & face. With the opening of the Longtan museum in Beijing, this knee height C dragon sculpture in my collection could be an original artwork! I will need to pay a visit to that museum to see if my dragon is most likely NOT a copy. Then I will post a picture here for all to see, but only if I think it is NOT a copy.

URL Title :Museum of Longtan opens in Beijing


Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Wed, May 01, 2013

9 cm Larva (front right). 14cm Pupa/Cicada (left). 17cm Pupa (back).

For Hongshan collector's enjoyment, not for authentication.

The pupa at the back was originally white in color. I used sandpaper to rub of the white skin so that I can enjoy the color of the sculpture, beside its form.

For comparison, click on the pig dragon shown on this website to take a look at the pictures of Hongshan Culture jades there:
http://throckmorton-nyc.com/

Is my C shaped dragon any less credible than the two C shaped dragons in that catalog?

Take a look at the Silkworm Pendent in that catalog. It has only one eye. Extinct species? If there were no one eye silkworm during the Hongshan period, wouldn't the person who wears a pendant like that be a laughing stock in that Hongshan Culture community?

If excavated one eye Hongshan Culture silkworm pendants do indeed exist, I will offer the gallery my sincere apologies for voicing my incorrect opinion here.






URL Title :H O N G S H A N Late Neolithic Chinese Jades


Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: pipane Tue, May 07, 2013

no comment on pictures posted here.

Kind of like the ¨just opened¨ phony beijing Hongshan museum, mixing authentic worthless stone artifacts (let´s call it Neolithic garbage) an huge phony-size-phony-shape modern Hongshan-Culture-like sculptures... so funny.. and broadcast on national (english channel) cctv...priceless

@Jac I recommand you this GREAT book it will confort you in your quest...

good luck !

Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Wed, May 08, 2013

Farmer sold an authentic Hongshan horse hoof cong to archeologist for only 5 RMB. See attached video.

I have collected about a dozen horse hoof congs or different colors (including one super rare yellow and one rare black piece) from one of my jade dealers/runners, who lived in Northeast China. When it comes to collecting Hongshan jade sculptures, I trust my jade dealers/runners. They are the field experts.

Horse hoof congs are NOT hair ornaments or headdress, in my opinion. If it is a headpiece for the hair, where is the hairpin? I think the Hongshan horse hoof cong is the predecessor of all later civilizations congs, like the C shaped Hongshan No. 1 dragon of China, the predecessor of all dragon shaped jade artifacts in China.

I get my Hongshan jades from my jade dealers from China who purchase what they believed to be authentic Hongshan artifacts from underground middlemen who in turn get their Hongsan jades from illegal tomb excavators like farmers or professional grave robbers.

I have been hunting high and low for Hongshan jades in the past few weeks here in Singapore and I have found NOTHING that I can take a second look. I have given my contact to the jade dealers here and I will wait and see what Hongshan pieces I can get nowadays. After a 13 years rest, I am going to collect more Hongsan artifacts. Let's see what I can get for the next 8 years compared to what I got from first 8 years from 1993 to 2000.

I have one more pig dragon which I did not show here. It is very special, most likely from the grave of a Hongshan chief.

I also have two life size Hongshan jade burial mask, one of a shaman and one stunning jade mask of a Hongshan prince/chief. I know how a Hongshan man look like as I have a piece of their burial mask.

What Hongsan artifacts have you got? Care to show it here for all to see?

Larger Hongshan burial jade pieces are made for the more or most important people in a Hongshan tribe. I do not collect Hongshan jade pendants. I gave them away as gifts when I get them. Pendants are the easiest to copy.

I have a strong feeling that the world has not seen a palm size "O" shaped Hongshan pig dragon, so any pieces that the world see after the date that I posted the picture here, could be a copy and I hold the secret to identifying the genuine O shaped Hongshan pig dragon. I am not kidding. There are special features on the O shaped pig in my collection that fakers would not be able to copy just by looking at the picture that I posted.

http://english.cntv.cn/program/documentary/20110823/100018.shtml

URL Title :Secrets of The Cairns


Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Thu, May 16, 2013

Stone turtle. 14cm X 13cm. Garbage or neolithic stone art, you be the judge.

For comparison, take a look at the pictures of authentic, excavated Hongshan culture artifacts shown in this link, one more time.

http://guwan58.blog.163.com/blog/static/182767920201042701023566/









URL Title :Excavated Hongshan Culture Artifacts


Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Thu, May 16, 2013

Another Hongshan culture stone sculpture. L 19cm, H 8cm. For me, this is a masterpiece of neolithic stone art. Simple and beautiful. Shaped and polished to perfection.

The attached link show very good pictures of authentic, legally excavated Hongshan culture artifacts.

http://guwan58.blog.163.com/blog/static/182767920201092211125972/








URL Title :Excavated Hongshan Culture Artifacts


Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Tue, May 21, 2013

L 17cm X W 11cm X H 6cm. The stone used to shape this is similar to some stone relics unearthed legally from Hongshan culture burial sites. What this stone sculpture depict, I don't know.







Subject:This Sculpture Depicts An Ancient Goddess of Childbirth
Posted By: Jac Sat, Jun 04, 2016

I washed this enigmatic sculpture a few days ago and examined its surface with a loupe. I have no doubt this carving is ancient. It has natural burial alteration marks all over its surface that are typically found on neolithic artifacts, the most compelling being the pit shown on the bottom photo.

Ancient artists carve a figure with a face for a reason. I managed to figure out what this sculpture represents.

The three raised lines/ridges on the forehead of the figure is an ancient symbol related to the female gender.

The rounder face and chubby cheeks says she is pregnant, about to give birth.

The expression on her face says she is in pain, in labour.

She has no clothing and her legs are spread wide open to facilitate childbirth.

This sculpture is an ancient Goddess of Childbirth.







Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Sun, May 19, 2013

Beast/alien face sitting/squatting stone figure with 2 horns. Height 14cm, width 10cm. Possibly Hongshan culture sculpture. Only one made of this material in my collection.

Take a look at the image of a Hongshan culture jade mask shown in this link:

http://news.sohu.com/20070913/n252121353.shtml.

The eyes and the mouth of both pieces look similar. If the jade mask is indeed from the Hongshan culture, this stone sculpture could be a Hongshan sculpture too.






URL Title :Rare 5,000 Years Mysterious Jade Mask


Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Tue, May 28, 2013

What happened to the Hongshan Culture people? They saw a meteor crashing into earth somewhere near where they lived, said some archeologists - see attached article.

http://www.sott.net/article/234135-Falling-Meteor-Depicted-in-5000-Year-Old-Rock-Carving-in-North-China

They Hongshan Culture people did not disappear after the meteor hit the earth, or else they would not have created the rock carvings depicting a falling meteor.

Some other archeologists said the temperature where they lived drop and they moved south and were the founders of the Shang dynasty.

I think the descendents of the Hongshan Culture people went to war and I will show pictures of some jade weapons that I have which I believed were made post Hongshan Culture.

Hongshan culture carved jades for about 1,500 years, their ancestors who also carved jades has a history of about 1,500 years and their descendents also carve jades and lived another 1,500 years before the formation of the Shang dynasty. Total about 4,500 years of jades carving history, so start believing that they are authentic 3,500 - 8,000 years old 3 dimensional jades that a collector can own at affordable prices.

The sculpture of a bird carrying a cylindrical object shown below may have been made to depict the falling meteor event witnessed by the Hongshan Culture people.






URL Title :5,000-year old rock carving depicts a falling meteor


Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Super Mon, Jun 03, 2013

I have been watching this Hongshan saga of yours without making any comments because you do have the right to develop your own fantasy in anything you collect and enjoy, therefore nobody should deprive you of such enjoyment. However, now you appear to start making up theory such as "Some other archeologists said the temperature where they lived drop and they moved south and were the founders of the Shang dynasty."

Please, give me a break, many Chineses have never heard of Hongshan culture until the past decade and even now if you ask most Chinese about either Hongshan culture or Liangzhu culture, unless they are jade collectors, they will have no idea in what the heck you are talking about.

In short, the Hongshan culture may be a culture of a minority nomadic tribe, the whole culture probably comprised of a population of not more than 100 thousand people in a vast area, its culture might have disappeared long time ago, just like many other more brilliant cultures that mysteriously disappeared from earth all over the world. It did not appear to have any known written language. Nobody knows how long it lasted or how many jade pieces they had ever made since they were nomads and did not stay anywhere for a long time. It would be difficult for them to find enough good material and stay in one place to work on them, which may explain the scarcity of their jade pieces. However, by no means the Hondshan culuture can be the main stream culture in China and the Shang dynasty was a continuation of it. Have you forgotten the Xia dynasty which came before the Shang culture? Please do study some more Chinese history before posting any more far-fetching story/theory here.

Also, based on the material and looks of all of these "Hongshan" style culture jade piece you have posted here, if any of the Hongshan jade carvers will see them today, they will be rolling all over in their graves because if these are what truly represent authentic Hongshan jade carvings and their life time works, I believe they will kill themselves first.

Just like Dave said about fantasy, a fantasy did some time make a good story but it does not necessarily represent the truth.

Please forgive me for saying this bluntly.


Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Tue, Jun 04, 2013

I am sorry that I had used the wrong words/sentence to try and introduce a hypothesis that the post Hongshan culture people went to fight wars and it caused some readers to be terribly upset.

I should have written "some scholars says Hongshan culture is the origin of Shang culture". I got this from the attached video, at 18:40.

http://english.cntv.cn/program/documentary/20110825/100027.shtml

At 16:34, the man in the video said "As temperature dropped, people living in the north had to moved to the comparatively warm south."

I am no expert in Chinese history or archeology, but I believed the people in the video who came up with these theories know more than most of us, so their theories should be used to improve our knowledge and not labeled as far-fetching.

I will not argue with criticisms or negative comments on the material or authenticity of the Hongshan culture sculptures that I posted here. The spirit of the Hongshan people who carved these pieces told me not to defend their creations. Their artworks are capable of defending themselves, by themselves.

A fake cannot become an original artwork and an original Hongshan culture masterpiece will never be a "style", nor matter what some people say.

Regarding Dave's fantasy, that is his fantasy, not mine. I deal with reality. I have real Hongshan culture sculptures that I can show here.

Once I asked my jade dealer from Northeast China if the Hongshan culture artifacts that he presented to me are indeed genuine and this is what he said - "Young man, you are still in diapers sucking teats when I started buying and selling these Hongshan jades. You think I can't tell what is real and what is fake?".

URL Title :A civilization 5000 years ago part 5 Dawn of civilization


Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Wed, May 29, 2013

This 17 cm nude sculpture of a kneeling figure with both arms holding a round vessel on its head, is a Hongshan Culture sculpture, said my archaic jade dealer/runner from Northeast China, about 15 years ago, when I got it from him.

I was skeptical then but now I believed he was right. I see the picture of a similar one in the newly opened Hongshan Culture museum in Beijing, China.

http://english.cctv.com/program/cultureexpress/20100318/101093.shtml

Why would anyone doubt the authenticity of the Hongshan Culture sculptures displayed in that museum? Can so many archeologists in China be all wrong?

Note - The bird carrying a cylindrical object in my previous post measures 12 cm X 12 cm.









URL Title :Hongshan Culture Museum Opens in Beijing


Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Wed, May 29, 2013

19 cm C shaped dragon.

I show here the Hongshan Culture C shaped dragons that I got, from my archaic jade dealer, in the 1990s.

Last Sunday, a jade dealer in Chinatown here in Singapore, with 30 years experience in jade business, showed me a knee height C shaped dragon, asking price SGD 12K. I looked at it and walked away, immediately. I have enough experience to be able to spot modern fakes.

Palm size fake pig dragons, current modern productions, can be found in Singapore, asking price SGD 200. Tourists do buy these fake stuff. A friend of mine, who operates a stall in a Sunday flee market here just sold one fake pig dragon for SGD 190, to an Ang Moh, two weeks back.








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Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Fri, May 31, 2013

Take a look at the attached video from 20:11. It shows experts evaluating Hongshan Culture artifacts from a collector and concluded that they are not copies. I came to this conclusion from the applause from the audience as I understand just a little spoken Mandarin. Chinese words, I do not understand at all.

http://jingji.cntv.cn/2012/12/21/VIDE1356093905389478.shtml

The material of the bird pendant below looks similar to the one evaluated by the experts. This 4cm X 6cm pendant may be an authentic Hongshan Culture artifact but may not be valuable, in my opinion. Most of my friends, Chinese or Indians wouldn't dare to hang it on their neck if I told them it came from a grave.

The third picture below is a week old, as I used sandpaper to remove the white layer of "skin" throughout its surface to enjoy the beauty of the material and workmanship.








URL Title :Experts Evaluating Hongshan Culture Artifacts


Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Dave Sun, Jun 02, 2013

The above images are pretty scary. You remind me of this French collector, residing in Singapore, who is a big time fan of hongshan jade according to my dad. The same guy was ostracized by reputable dealers in Chinatown, Singapore. Once there was a Chinese porcelain seminar in Singapore, co- hosted by Beijing Poly, and this French collector brought his hongshan collection to discuss with the Beijing Poly personnel. They simply smiled and returned the pieces to him without saying much.

As much as I respect collectors focused in Hongshan jade, I think this area is too controversial when we talk about collecting Chinese Archaic Jade in a prudent manner. More like collecting a fantasy with endless stories that just get better and better.

Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: LEE Tue, Jun 04, 2013

There are all types of Hongshan forgeries available in China. There are the cheap Serpentine form that is eroded and stained with all sort of color. There are the more expensive Hetian varieties as well. You can get a truck lot at the antique markets and the jade and antique department stores. They come in all sort of styles of carving some are out right fakes with mating couples and etc. None of these sort of forgeries are found in reputable museums in china like the National museum or the palace museum. These fakes are found in some small private and state run museums just to show the handicraft and to entertain the visitors but they are not serious antiques or any treasures. All the serious genuine jade artifacts are found in the national museums e.g Shanghai museum or Zhejiang or Shandong museum. The rest are just showing arts and crafts. Bring any of those examples to a reputable auction house either in China e.g Poly or Forever and see what they tell you in the native lanquage.

Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: Jac Fri, Jun 07, 2013

Hi LEE,

I agree with your view that there are many types of Hongshan forgeries available in China. Hongshan jade collectors should treat every Hongshan artifact that they see as a possible replica, unless proven otherwise.

I also agree with your view that mating couples are outright fakes and I believed mermaids are probably fakes and all the phalluses listed on ebay are outrageous fakes.

Based on your information regarding the presence of fakes in small private and state run museums, I will be careful not to assume that the artifacts in these museums are all authentic.

Thank you for recommending reputable auction houses in China like Poly or Forever where collectors can bring their jades which they believe are genuine for appraisal.

Below are images of a jade bi from the reputable national Zhejiang museum and an excavated round bird shaped artifact for comparison with an example that I have. From these pictures, I can see that the material of my example look a little like the bi from Zhejiang museum while its form and shape is almost identical to the excavated bird shaped artifacft, displayed in the Shanghai museum, if I am not wrong.

In term of esthetics and workmanship, I believed my example would not cause any visitor to be terribly upset if it were displayed side by side with the one in the reputable museum, if it were legally excavated.







Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: LEE Sun, Jun 09, 2013

The shapes are different. the shanghai museum example has a bigger hole in the middle, the hole is wider from the side it was bore and the walls are straighter and not so rounded like yours. the shanghai museum eye is not so well rounded as it is carved by hand with a rasp With abrasive
and not a well controlled drill.There are inclusions found in the tool marks left by the carver, there is very natural pitting on the carving with natural looking inclusion and not frosty chemical created pitting. looking at the shanghai museum piece you could imagine the outline of a slim looking bird coiled to look like a bi with the outline of the wings and tail. with yours unfortunately it is harder to see it. If you had not shown the other piece I wouldn't have guessed the creature.

Subject:Re: Hongshan Sculptures for Enjoyment, Analysis & Discussion
Posted By: William Mon, Dec 09, 2013

"Sandpaper"?

What a great way to destroy calcium deposits, which is an essential sign of determining age and authenticity.

If you want to lessen the visual effect of calcification, best use an oil.

Oil will mask the calcium deposits while bringing out the true color of the jade.

I use WD-40. An occasional wipe with a damp oiled cloth will do nicely.

And it will not destroy the patina. The "skin" or surface of the jade.

Also, luster has nothing to do with determining the authenticity of a jade.

If an ancient jade carving has "luster", it is because it has been polished or buffed out.

William
from Connecticut

Subject:Three-Tier Cong
Posted By: Jac Wed, Jun 19, 2013

Below, top image is a three-tier cong, with no carved lines, height 13 cm, upper diameter 8 cm, lower diameter 7 cm, that I have owned for about 20 years. This cong looked a bit like the one from the Jinsha site discovered in 2001 (image from this website: http://www.friendsofjade.org/current-article/2007/12/3/the-jades-of-the-jinsha-site-in-sichuanchina.html).

Not a Hongshan Culture cong. Could be more than 3,000 years old, older than the 4 tier cong from the Jinsha site as there were no carved lines and the lip of the cong is rounder. Where it came from and who made it, I have no idea.






URL Title :Jades from the Jinsha site


Subject:One Unique Pig Dragon
Posted By: Jac Tue, Jun 25, 2013

Pictures below shows a unique Honshan Culture pig dragon. It has a bird/eagle attached to the back of its body. Height 19cm, width 15cm.

The lady from China who brought this to my home sometime in 1993 or 1994 (so long ago, I cannot remember the exact date/year) claimed that this pig dragon belong to a Hongshan Culture chief/king. Her opinion, not mine and I believed she her theory makes sense as this pig dragon is rare and unique.

Below is a link to a website that has pictures of Hongshan Culture pig dragons from around the world.

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_5b1e2b460100if75.html








URL Title :Pig Dragons from Around The World


Subject:Re: One Unique Pig Dragon
Posted By: xie xiang Sun, Jun 30, 2013

Jac, Incredible Pig Dragon, really enjoyed seeing these pictures. Thanks a lot

Subject:High Resolution Photos of This Unique Pig Dragon
Posted By: Jac Fri, Apr 11, 2014

Thanks to Dropbox I am able to attach high resolutions pictures of this "one of a kind" pig dragon:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hpfutfegqu12b5f/ndR4-WzZZs

These photos are for the scholars, collectors and others who may be interested in sharper photos to determine for themselves if this is indeed a genuine Hongshan Culture pig dragon.

I have no doubt about the authenticity of this piece. It is "my genuine" Hongshan Culture jade sculpture.

I know I have first stated that I got this piece in 1993/1994 and then said that I got it in 1991/1992. Sorry for this confusion. My memory is failing me.

I am sure I got this pig dragon not earlier than 1992, and probably not later than 1993.

It came together with the Majestic Upright Bird sculpture. Perhaps both sculptures came from the same tomb/site.



URL Title :Pig Dragon


Subject:Better Pictures of The C Shaped Dragon, 1st Post on This Thread
Posted By: Jac Sat, Jun 29, 2013

These are better pictures of the C shaped dragon from the 1st post on this thread.

I have not seen any C shaped dragon with a better gem like lustre than this one.

Attached is video on the discovery of a Lower Xiajiadian site in 2009 in Inner Mongolia.








URL Title :Lower Xiajiadian Houses


Subject:Re: Better Pictures of The C Shaped Dragon, 1st Post on This Thread
Posted By: Dave Mon, Jul 01, 2013

If I remember correctly, the genuine iconic C-dragon piece in the museum has very fine (unlike yours that seem so far apart) criss cross marks at the bottom of the head/mouth.

Was just wondering if you tie a string to the hole of your C-dragon and allow it to dangle in the air, the resulting position of the C-dragon may reveal more about its authenticity.

Nonetheless, you can still worship this piece at home for your own enjoyment. =)

Subject:Re: Better Pictures of The C Shaped Dragon, 1st Post on This Thread
Posted By: Jac Mon, Jul 01, 2013

First picture below shows the altered surface of a the famous legally/scientifically excavated Hongshan Culture pig dragon.

The second picture below shows the altered surface of the famous legally/scientifically excavated Hongshan Culture figurine.

Both the pig dragon and figurine shown in the first two pictures below are genuine, authentic, legally/scientifically excavated Hongshan Culture sculptures.

The third picture below shows a close up view of the altered surface of the C shaped dragon from the first post of this thread, dated Apr 19. It is the same C shaped dragon from my previous post, dated Jun 29.

The altered surface of the C shaped dragon looked similar to the altered surfaces of the authentic, excavated Hongshan Culture pig dragon and figurine.

Attached is the second part of the video on the discovery of a Lower Xiajiadian site in 2009 in Inner Mongolia, for the information of those who wish to improve the understand of Hongshan and post Honshan cultures in Northeast China.








URL Title :Lower Xiajiadian Houses Part 2


Subject:Re: Better Pictures of The C Shaped Dragon, 1st Post on This Thread
Posted By: Dave Tue, Jul 02, 2013

Could you kindly snap close-ups on the (1) criss cross mark at the bottom of the head/mouth, (2) drilled hole and (3) eyes? Like to see how the carvings were done.

I am skeptical of that www.rn-hswh.com source that you got the images from.

Subject:Re: Better Pictures of The C Shaped Dragon, 1st Post on This Thread
Posted By: Jac Tue, Jul 02, 2013

The close ups that you requested, to satisfy your curiosity.

The close up images of the excavated Hongshan Culture pig dragon and standing male figurine comes from this web page:

http://guwan58.blog.163.com/blog/static/182767920201092211125972/








URL Title :Close Up Images of Excavated Hongshan Culture Sculptures


Subject:Re: Better Pictures of The C Shaped Dragon, 1st Post on This Thread
Posted By: Dave Wed, Jul 03, 2013

Unable to have a clear view from that angle, does the drilled hole seem to be drilled from one end all the way out the other side, like a tubular drilled hole? Perhaps you can describe this part based on your hands-on observation.

The eyes and hair appear way out of proportion to the mouth and overall body, which looks a little weird. Furthermore, the criss cross marks on excavated and documented pieces are fine and tight "yin ke" carved lines, unlike yours which is so wide apart, restricted to just under the mouth (yours stretches all the way to under the eye).

Pardon me, but it gives me the impression of being more cartoon than something revered by tribal people thousands of years ago.

Subject:Re: Better Pictures of The C Shaped Dragon, 1st Post on This Thread
Posted By: Dave Wed, Jul 03, 2013

Just found out that the criss cross mark is called a rhomboid lattice pattern. This pattern is very fine. In fact, the famous C dragon museum piece has this pattern both on the forehead and beneath the jaw. Some may argue that we cannot just take one example to authenticate the rest, however, a lot of things do not add up in this case.

One more thing. When you tie a string to the drilled hole, how does the position of your piece look like? Perhaps you could snap a photo of that. If it was really used for worshipping thousands of years ago, the final dangling position will reveal itself. Often forgers do not think about this area due to lack of education.

Subject:Re: Better Pictures of The C Shaped Dragon, 1st Post on This Thread
Posted By: xie xiang Tue, Jul 09, 2013

Jac,
I say the bird (owl), 'C' Dragon and the Pig Dragon are very much real stuff and i seriously suggest you to bring this to China and you can get it authenticated. I did consult many before firming up my opinion. If you are coming by China, please let me know, i can assist you in getting right contacts here.

To those who cry foul, please do a thorough investigation and consult few others before calling these fakes. Of course its your will to do so, but articulating your opinion will be helpful for all of us seek and learn in this forum.

Subject:Re: Better Pictures of The C Shaped Dragon, 1st Post on This Thread
Posted By: chinkang Wed, Apr 16, 2014

Hi Xie Xiang, there are quite a number of people that have HongShan jade, but who are these experts who can verify them. Museum curators are most probably the most qualified ones who have excess to the numerous quantity of Hongshan to be able to authenticate, but more and more excavations reveal even more unusual carvings. But nevertheless the more expose you are to the present ones found the more you can tell whether the material and design are from Hongshan period.







Subject:The Face of An Important Hongshan Culture Male Figure
Posted By: Jac Tue, Jul 09, 2013

The first two pictures below show the face/head of a 62 cm sculpture made of turquoise like stone, which I acquired last month. This sculpture could possibly be of the late Hongshan Culture period as it has facial features (broad sunken mouth, high nose and huge eyes) similar to the 55cm Hongshan Culture pottery figure discovered in 2012 (third picture below, taken from this site - http://cn.hujiang.com/new/p406431/?op).










URL Title :Hongshan Culture Pottery Figure


Subject:Re: The Face of An Important Hongshan Culture Male Figure
Posted By: Dave Wed, Jul 10, 2013

It is quite appalling to witness your standard of comparison evident from the Cong and Figure images above. Dumbfounded about the drilled hole and dangling position?

Subject:Seated Zoomorphic Figure With The Head of An Ox
Posted By: Jac Mon, Jul 15, 2013

This post is a continuation of the post where I showed the head/face of what I believed to be an important Hongshan Culture male figure. The 62cm high sculpture where the picture of the face/head was taken is shown below.

If you share my belief that seated figures with animal head and human body are idols worshiped by the Hongshan Culture people, then it would not be illogical to come to the conclusion that the face of the man on the shoulder of the Hongshan Culture idol is that of a Hongshan Culture man. I believed no ordinary person of the Hongshan Culture tribe would be allowed to climb over the head of an idol/god, unless that person is a chief, ruler or king.

The workmanship and the artistic talent required to shape this exquisite and realistic sculpture is probably beyond the capability of forgers. The rendering of the sunken mouth, high nose and huge eyes is similar to that of a genuine Hongshan Culture pottery figure excavated in 2012. The sculpture shown below has been around since 1996.







Subject:A White Jade Mountain Carving
Posted By: Jac Thu, Jul 11, 2013

I am dumfounded to read the rude comments of a young reader trying to authenticate a C shaped dragon, with basic knowledge of Hongshan Culture artifacts, like dangling position and hole drill marks. I would be dumb to conclude that a C dragon is authentic if its dangling position and drill marks are correct because these are elementary knowledge which the forgers can copy.

For about 7 years between 1993 to 2000, I engaged the services of 2 experienced jade runners from China to help me collect Hongshan Culture artifacts. Each of them have about 20 years dealing in archaic jades. They would collect archaic jades that they could find/buy all over China and bring them to me two to three times a year. When they are unable to find Hongshan/archaic jades, they would bring to me some white jades, like the white jade mountain shown below, length 24cm, height 19cm, thickness 5cm.

In the mid 1990s, I paid SGD 3,000 for this white jade mountain. I do not know when this white jade mountain was made. White jade has value and the price of white jade has increased over the years. One of my jade runner is now coming to Singapore to buy modern white jades for sale to his customers in China. In the 1990s, jade runners from China come to Singapore to sell jades, not buy. Now it is the other way round.

I do not wish to argue against comments from readers relating to the authenticity of the Hongshan Culture sculptures that I show here. If you think they are fakes, let them be fakes to you. I will not attempt to change your opinion of what is genuine and what is not. If you do not like what you see here, say what you like, if you have to, and move on to see what you enjoy, or start your own thread on dangling dragons or tubular drill marks. Please stop trolling this thread.

The video on a dangling C shaped dragon is shown here, at 6:12 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOrCEu_QT7Y.








URL Title :Dangling C Shaped Dragon


Subject:A C Shaped Dragon With The Earliest Form of The Chinese Script?
Posted By: Jac Sat, Jul 13, 2013

The 25cm C shaped dragon shown below has 3 lines on its chin/lower jaw. This 3 horizontal lines could possibly be one of the earliest form of the Chinese script. It is my personal opinion that the 3 horizontal lines on Hongshan Culture artifacts either represents of is related to the FEMALE gender. Based on this HYPOTHESIS, the C shaped dragon shown here is a female dragon.

The male C shaped dragon of the Hongshan Culture has square mesh (rhombic lattice) pattern on the base of its lower jaw or the top of its head or on both the head and the jaw. This is just another THEORY of mine. If you find these theories hard to accept, just dismiss them as rubbish and move on but please do not get angry to the point where you have to troll this thread with rude remarks.

Apparently there is a fierce debate among experts in China over the discovery of 5,000-year-old inscriptions that some believe represent the earliest record of Chinese characters.

See:

http://europe.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2013-07/13/content_16770135.htm

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/lifestyle/experts-row-over-earliest/742464.html








URL Title :Inscriptions may predate oracle bones


Subject:Re: A C Shaped Dragon With The Earliest Form of The Chinese Script?
Posted By: LEE Fri, Jul 26, 2013

Some state and official run museums have recently been accused of displaying fake antiques and they have been accused of corruption and wasting public money by angry villages. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2365937/Museum-forced-close-China-claims-40-000-antique-artefacts-fake.html

Subject:Re: A C Shaped Dragon With The Earliest Form of The Chinese Script?
Posted By: Dave Sun, Jul 28, 2013

Seems like Lee found like-minded friends for the benefit of this thread.

Subject:Mother & Child C Shaped Dragon
Posted By: Jac Wed, Jul 31, 2013

"Mother & Daughter" C shaped dragon. Dark green nephrite. Height 24cm.

Presented here for enjoyment, comparison or discussion. Not for authentication.

Only a mother can carry a child, therefore the three horizontal relief lines on the chin of this dragon would most likely have represented the female gender, when found on sculptures created by the Hongshan Culture artists.

Reputable museums in China do not have anything like this for comparison.







Subject:Re: Mother & Child C Shaped Dragon
Posted By: xie xiang Fri, Aug 02, 2013

Wow! Nice one. First time seeing something like this. In china we see various animals with their babies in sculptures at various places. Given that, its possible that a Mother/baby dragon also exist. Would like to hear from others, whether they have seen similar pieces. Thanks Jac for posting it

Subject:Re: Mother & Child C Shaped Dragon
Posted By: Dave Sat, Aug 03, 2013

The eyes of these C dragons are almost exactly the same. Same forger perhaps?

Highly recommend opening your own palace museum.

There is nothing much to authenticate but I still love coming back to update myself on what to avoid when collecting Chinese archaic jade. Thank you!

Subject:Re: Mother & Child C Shaped Dragon
Posted By: Michael O Mon, Aug 05, 2013

It's an interesting point Dave raises. Other than scientific means, experts compare features of real and / or fakes to judge a piece of work. From what I know, highly important sculptures, such as buddha scupltures for example, have to be carved to conform to very strick guidelines for proportions and features (hair, eyes, fingers, etc).

Without proof of whether the previous piece of carving posted is real or fake in the first place, what is the basis to conclude that this work is a forgery based on the eyes being "exactly the same"? So far, I have not yet seen Dave or other experts prove that conclusively.

Like my mother always told me "if you have nothing good to say, then dont say anything".

Subject:Re: Mother & Child C Shaped Dragon
Posted By: LEE Tue, Aug 06, 2013

I agree with Dave, very poor fake, hopefully you didn't any more than $20 for it. poor stone bad simple crving they like to fake such things in china because it is simple to carve and such raw material is cheap to buy.

Subject:Re: Mother & Child C Shaped Dragon
Posted By: Jac Sun, Aug 11, 2013

LEE, I am surprised that you are also qualified to appraise and authenticate Hongshan Culture C shaped dragons. When you recommended reputable auction houses in China like Poly or Forever for me to send my pieces for appraisal, you should have included yourself as a reputable appraiser, like the auction houses you recommended.

Perhaps you could tells us why you think you are qualified to appraise and authenticate Hongshan Culture C shaped dragons. Show us what genuine Hongshan Culture C shaped dragons that you owned or handled in your lifetime so that others can trust your judgement. Post the pictures here, please.

If you are correct about the authenticity of this double C shaped dragon, then the Chinese national from Northeast China who sold it to me is a fake Hongshan Culture expert and vice verse. I hope someday I will have to opportunity to send this example to the reputable auction houses in China that you recommended for appraisal. When I do this, I hope the result is what you said here - poor fake, poor stone, not worth more than $20.

Since your provide free appraisal services, could you please help me identify if the dragon head below is authentic and how much it is worth. L5cm, H3cm, W3cm. I paid USD 25 for it about 3 weeks back, from the flea market. I think the original material is nephrite.

Thanks in advance.







Subject:Re: Mother & Child C Shaped Dragon
Posted By: LEE Tue, Aug 13, 2013

Hi Jac, I have hongshan and neolithic jade in my collection but I do not boast I have a pig dragon. They are such rare things I don't believe there has been a authentic piece on the market for ages. There are too many fakes in china you can get for a few dollars a piece and yours look no different from the fakes I have seen at antique markets all over China. You should learn from visiting reputable museums in China and also looking at items at reputable auctions and at the antique market where fake flourishes. The dragon head is made from serpentine or from brownite. It lacks the luster and reflective index of jade. This one has been soaked in acid and colored to look like a dragon head from the warring state but unfortunately it is a cleverly done fake. The item should bubble with some acid placed on it's surface. such items appear frosted and white when it is clean with detergent but has a color when you aply some vegetable oil to it.
I would not be scratching it and breathing in the dust as it contains asbestos needles called termolites.

Subject:Re: Mother & Child C Shaped Dragon
Posted By: Dave Tue, Aug 06, 2013

Playing music to the spoon-fed cow perhaps Michael?

Fortunately, when I first started out in this area, I put in a lot more hard work to compile my own research instead of begging for answers. I question that point based on the fact that the Neolithic people do not make these in bulk back then and spent lots of time just to carve out a masterpiece - so how does a wonderkid collector amass such a "great" collection of Neolithic Chinese Archaic Jade even "greater" than what reputable Chinese museums possess? If only it was as easy as depending on Chinese runners.

Moreover, several valid points were raised above by some of us and stricT guidelines are only for those who know what they are talking about. What's the use of following "strick" guidelines that are wrong Michael?

From your previous items Michael, I would advise you to link up with our dear friend here and hopefully learn more. Awww, I really admire mummy's boy and filial piety has been highly regarded in Confucian philosophy. Cheers.


Subject:Mother & Child C Shaped Dragon - High Resolution Pictures
Posted By: Jac Fri, Apr 11, 2014

High resolution photos:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q6cho9oesli88o0/7iF1mdnZWp

Perhaps there are others who could appreciate the beauty of this masterpiece and would like to see sharper pictures.

There is no comparison between this original masterpiece and all the copies that I see anywhere.

I believed some of the 45K plus members of the Renan Hongshan Culture Forum in China (www.rn-hswh.com) may be interested in high resolution photos of this masterpiece for their analysis, comparison or enjoyment.


URL Title :Boteh C Shaped Dragon


Subject:A White Jade Buddha
Posted By: Jac Wed, Aug 07, 2013

A white jade Buddha, height 22cm, purchased for SGD 800 from the jade runner from Northeast China, in the mid 1990s. I had to buy what he brings to me, including the white jades.

If you wonder why I stop collecting around year 2000, it was because my jade runners could not find authentic Hongshan Culture jades for me. What the could bring to me were the white and green jades so I stop buying altogether. One of them quit running while the other is still around and focus on white modern jades.

As I present the image of a jade Buddha here, let me share some of his words of wisdom.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. Gautama Buddha.

We are formed and molded by our thoughts. Those whose minds are shaped by selfless thoughts give joy when they speak or act. Joy follows them like a shadow that never leaves them. Gautama Buddha.







Subject:Re: A White Jade Buddha
Posted By: Dave Fri, Aug 09, 2013

Those jade runners must be laughing all the way to the bank.

Subject:Re: A White Jade Buddha
Posted By: JLim Fri, Aug 09, 2013



Warning - I believe "Jac" is the Yahoo Fraudster (see my post)

For God's sake cut this thread short. This "Jac" is polluting the entire site, and will get more mendacious if not checked.

Regards
JLim

Subject:Re: A White Jade Buddha
Posted By: xie xiang Fri, Aug 09, 2013

It's amazing that the comments on this thread after jac's Buddha posting. It clearly demonstrate that ignorance has no medicine.

Subject:A Pair of Pig Dragon, One Male One Female?
Posted By: Jac Fri, Aug 09, 2013

Take a close look at the pair of pig dragons found in a tomb at the Niuheliang site shown in the picture below.

One is larger than the other. The larger, green pig dragon has a gap between the mouth and the tail that cuts through the center hole. The smaller, white pig dragon has a slit between the mouth and tail that does not cut through the center hole.

A two year old child would have noticed this, so what is my point? One is a male pig dragon and the other is a female pig dragon, perhaps? Any evidence to back this theory? Sorry, I have no solid proof. Just my imagination to satisfy my curiosity. I could be right or I could be wrong with this male/female theory.

Attached is a video that shows a 3.3cm pig dragon pendant found near the neck of a female skeleton. Fast forward the video to 7:10 to see the image of the pig dragon. The slit between the mouth and the tail does not cut through to the center hole.





URL Title :In Search of Huangdi City / Part 05 2/2


Subject:Re: A Pair of Pig Dragon, One Male One Female?
Posted By: Harry Tue, Aug 13, 2013

Jac,
Keep on posting. You have a very interesting collection of
Jades.


Harry

Subject:Re: A Pair of Pig Dragon, One Male One Female?
Posted By: JLim Thu, Aug 15, 2013



Harry is the Yahoo Fraudster. Note how he praises Jac.

Subject:The Hongshan Theories Continues With 3 Credible C Dragons
Posted By: Jac Wed, Oct 16, 2013

The top picture below is that of an excavated C shaped dragon. I believed this is the only legally excavated Hongshan culture C shaped dragon from a museum in China. I am aware of two other C shaped dragons in the collection of reputable museums in China - the famous Sanxingtala dragon and the Dongguaibanggou dragon. Both are donated C shaped dragons, found by villagers and handed over to the museums.

The middle image below is that of a slim C shaped dragon displayed at The Palace Museum in Beijing (from http://treasure.chinese.cn/en/article/2009-08/25/content_13030.htm).

The bottom picture below is that of a C shaped dragon sold by a reputable auction house in China in 1996, for RMB 2,530,000.

C shaped dragon is believed to be the totem of a Hongshan Culture tribe. Perhaps the pig dragon is also the totem of another Hongshan Culture tribe.







Subject:Re: The Hongshan Theories Continues With 3 Credible C Dragons
Posted By: chin kang Mon, Mar 17, 2014

Dear jac, I am new here and an collector of Hongshan jade. I have posted pics of C dragon, bi ,bird, and a couple of other relics and waiting for replies, Can help me out by looking at them. Appreciate your views and your advise. Thanks.

http://www.asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=77743

Subject:Re: The Hongshan Theories Continues With 3 Credible C Dragons
Posted By: Jac Mon, Jun 01, 2015

Correction - No C-shaped dragon were found from controlled, legal excavations in China.

Based on the shape, workmanship and surface appearance of the 3 "credible" C-shaped dragons shown in my previous post, I am of not convinced the top and bottom piece is of the Hongshan Culture period.

The slim, round C-shaped dragon in the middle photo from The Palace Museum in Beijing - is that a genuine Hongshan Culture sculpture to your eyes?

I have 3 slim, round C-shaped dragons and I am not sure if any of them are are genuine.

Subject:Mother C Shaped Dragon & Child/Daughter Pig Dragon
Posted By: Jac Wed, Oct 16, 2013

I show off here, in Asianart forum, what I believed to be a very rare 17cm "mother" C shaped dragon carrying a "child" pig dragon.

This light green nephrite sculpture has irrefutable marks of authenticity (top and middle pictures) similar to marks found on a famous excavated pig dragon from a reputable museum in China (see bottom picture).

Perhaps this sculpture was made to show the integration of the C shaped dragon tribe and the pig dragon tribe. This is just another theory of mine. Please do not get upset if you do not agree with me. Why do the Hongshan Culture people create a sculpture like this? Perhaps you have a better answer.







Subject:Huangdi Defeated Chiyou, Carved on Liangzhu Cong??
Posted By: Jac Tue, Oct 29, 2013

The Battle of Zhuolu (Traditional Chinese: 涿鹿之戰 or Simplified Chinese: 涿鹿之战) was the second battle in Chinese history as recorded in the Records of the Grand Historian, fought between the Yellow Emperor (Huang Di) and Chi You. The battle was fought in Zhuolu, near the present-day border of Hebei and Liaoning. The victory for the Yellow Emperor here is often credited as the establishment of the Han Chinese civilization, although almost everything from that time period is considered legendary. Traditional Chinese historiography places the battle in the 26th century BC, although a recent study has suggested the traditional dates to be at least some two centuries too early for the remotest recorded periods. - Wikipedia.

According to notes by the Qing Dynasty painter Luo Ping: "Yellow Emperor ordered his men to have Chi You beheaded... seeing that Chi You's head was separated from his body, later sages had his image engraved on sacrificial vessels as a warning to those that would covet power and wealth." - Wikipedia.

The first image below shows the details of the image of a man riding a beast carved on a Liangzhu cong. Perhaps this image shows the victory of the Yellow Emperor over Chiyou. Just a conjecture. I apologize to anyone who may be offended by this suggestion, which have no proof other than my own imagination.

The second and third images below are that of a 22cm by 24cm double sided faceplate which has a face that looked almost identical in design to the face of the beast like creature carved on the Liangzhu cong.







Subject:Re: Huangdi Defeated Chiyou, Carved on Liangzhu Cong??
Posted By: John Tue, Aug 05, 2014

Check this out. Any information you can give me would be would be appreciated. Thanks, John

Subject:A Neolithic Bi
Posted By: Jac Wed, Nov 13, 2013

A neolithic Bi, outer diameter 12cm, inner diameter 5cm.

Based on my limited knowledge and my own evaluation criteria, I believed this Bi is not a modern imitation.

Attached is a short 3.5 minutes video with images of Liangzhu culture Bi from the Smithsonian's Freer and Sackler galleries in Washington, D.C.








URL Title :The Mystery of the Jade Discs


Subject:Re: A Neolithic Bi
Posted By: JLim Thu, Nov 14, 2013

Warning - I believe "Jac" is the Yahoo Fraudster (see my post)

For God's sake cut this thread short. This "Jac" is polluting the entire site, and will get more mendacious if not checked.

Regards
JLim

Subject:3 Toothed Face Plaques
Posted By: Jac Fri, Nov 22, 2013

The first image below is that of a rare 28.6 cm long excavated Hongshan Culture rectangular face plaque with five teeth, from a credible museum in China.

The second/middle image below is that of an excavated Hongshan Culture rectangular face plaque, from the famous Niuheliang burial site, also with five teeth. Note that this plaque is broken with two fragments.

These two toothed face plaques are the genuine/authentic excavated Hongshan Culture sculptures, presented here for reference.

The bottom image below is reproduced here from this webpage - http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/a-rare-greyish-green-and-opaque-buff-jade-5418321-details.aspx. This 8.9cm long FRAGMENT of a toothed pendant with 5 teeth, with an $15K - $18K price estimate which was passed in an earlier auction (http://www.thecityreview.com/f10cchincerm.html) was sold for a $43,750 hammer price. To understand why this fragment looked odd, divide the excavated toothed face plague in the middle photo into 6 sections and take off the top and the right sections.

To my eye, the surface around the two bigger holes/eyes of this broken fragment appears to have been repolished and covered with soil. The smaller hole on the left edge is unusual - have you seen any genuine Hongshan Culture toothed face plaque/pendant with a hole at that location? Where is the other half of this fragment, if it really came from a tomb?

Take a look at the "Toothed" Ornament here (http://www.zacke.at/en/catalogue/jade/east-asian-culture/china-hongshan-culture-ca-3500-3000-bc/toothed-ornament) and read the description from a Expert Univ. Prof. What are the chances that there are two Hongshan Culture fragments of a toothed pendant, broken at the same place? The edges of the break line of this fragment, does it looked smooth of jagged?








URL Title :Dragon Pursuit


Subject:Toothed Face Plaques Represent Images of Hongshan Culture Gods?
Posted By: Jac Thu, Nov 28, 2013

At 8:05, the attached video provides an illustration of the images carved on a rock found in Baimiaozi, Innner Mongolia, attributed to the Hongshan Culture.

The first picture below is that of a still frame of the video showing the images of the faces carved on the rock. Some of these images looked similar to the "toothed" face plaques shown in my previous post. The narrator in the video mentioned that these images are gods of the Hongshan Culture people? I am unable to confirm this as I understand just a little Mandarin.

I believed genuine Hongshan Culture toothed face plaques from controlled documented excavations are related to the images of gods carved by the ancient Hongshan Culture people on this rock.

I have seen images of toothed face plaques from museums with 3, 5 and 7 teeth. The faces of the gods carved on the rock has 3, 5 and 9 teeth? No face with 7 teeth? The carving on the top left, the one referred to as the sun god has 4 vertical rays and 6 teeth? The face with 9 teeth is the biggest among all the faces carved on the rock and a huge face plaque, the biggest, with 9 teeth is either still underground or with some private collector?

The middle picture below is that of a toothed face plaque with 7 teeth (from a credible museum in China?).

The bottom image is that of a L. 19.1cm H. 6.9 cm toothed face plaque from the National Palace Museum, Taiwan (http://www.npm.gov.tw/exh99/chinese_jades/en6.html).










URL Title :Dragon Pursuit


Subject:The Baimiaozi Rock Has A Face With Almond Shaped Eyes
Posted By: Jac Thu, Dec 19, 2013

The first image below is that of the potato shaped rock in Baimiaozi, discovered by a Chinese researcher by the name of Wu Jiacai. The images on this rock were carved by the Hongshan Culture people or their ancestors (from watching the video here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea5FWHAc74g)

The bottom corner or edge of this rock has a carving of a face with almond shaped eyes. This face is probably the face of a god of the ancient Hongshan Culture people or their ancestors (based on what I understand from this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea5FWHAc74g).

A larger, sharper image of this face with almond shaped eyes is shown in the bottom photo.

Did you noticed that this face is not flat but curved like a triangle while the rest of the faces on the rock is flat?

Did you also noticed that this god face with almond shaped eyes has a flat head (the area above the face is flat)?

Did the ancient Hongshan Culture artist(s) chose or shaped a part of the rock to exact specification to depict one of their god, who has a almond shaped eyes and a triangular shaped head???

Just an observation. No theory. No opinion, no mis-information.






URL Title :Wu Jiacai\'s Blog


Subject:Re: 3 Toothed Face Plaques
Posted By: Jac Tue, Jan 21, 2014

The 28.6 cm long excavated Hongshan Culture rectangular face plaque with five teeth (1st photo from my previous post) was found beside the face/head/skull of its owner. See 1st photo below.

Perhaps this toothed face plaque is a representative image of a Hongshan Culture god and the person buried with this object represents this god in ancient worshiping rituals.

Because of the large size of this genuine toothed face plaque, which covers the whole length of a human head, it is unlikely that it was used as a pendant or ornament worn around the neck.

The tip of the teeth/legs of the two genuine excavated toothed face plaque shown in my previous post is flat, like that of a flat-head screwdriver.

A toothed pendant with 7 "teeth" from a museum can be seen here - http://www.asia.si.edu/collections/zoomObject.cfm?ObjectId=12706. It has a 17.2 cm width which is unusually short, less than the length of a genuine excavated face plaque with 5 "teeth". This toothed object has conical "teeth" with pointed tips, which is different from the flat-head tips of the two genuine excavated Hongshan Culture toothed face plaques. Does this pendant has any feature or mark similar to a genuine Hongshan Culture artifact?

The 2nd photo below is that of a toothed pendant fragment from the Beijing palace museum. Width 8.3 cm, height 4.9 cm, 0.3 cm thick. Is this object from a controlled documented excavation or what? Does this look like a genuine Hongshan Culture artifact to you?

The "Toothed" Ornament mentioned in the last paragraph of my previous post has been removed from the site. It can still be seen here - http://www.zacke.at/en/collection/14718/archaic-antique-jades-6-milleniums-part-iv-exhibition-2012/item/11427/kunsthandwerk-ostasiatischer-kulturkreis-toothed-ornament-jade.

It is possible that all fragments of a toothed pendant with sharp conical tips are not genuine Hongshan Culture artifacts but copies of copy?





Subject:A Hongshan Culture Nephrite Bird Totem, With Tiny Black "Pearls"
Posted By: Jac Fri, Dec 20, 2013

I do not have any Hongshan Culture "toothed" face plaques of my own which I believed is genuine to show off here. I have one toothed face plaque which I am sure is a modern copy.

I have 4 thin toothed face PENDANTS which I dare not claim are genuine and show them here because I do not believe thin toothed PENDANTS are genuine Hongshan Culture artifacts.

Hongshan Culture has bird totems. I have one that I can show off here. It has only one hole in the centre, which is rather rare or unusual. I believe this piece is a genuine Hongshan Culture artifact because it has tiny black "pearls" (see bottom photo) in addition to surface alterations which appears to be natural and not artificially created.

I do not believe those tiny black "pearls" can be artificially impregnated onto the surface of the nephrite bird sculpture.

Height 5.8cm, Width 4.8cm.

Attached is a link to an article on a study conducted by a Chinese researcher on Hongshan Culture jade sculptures from official/museum collection (http://hong.xiaobing.blog.163.com/blog/static/28875580201156101739725/).








URL Title :Hongshan Culture Jade Study


Subject:Re: A Hongshan Culture Nephrite Bird Totem, With Tiny Black "Pearls"
Posted By: LEE Sat, Jan 25, 2014

modern drill marks on the head and neck area of the bird. The tool marks in these areas should be parallel to the cut . They would have been cut with a rasp or a disc and not a drill. Drills were only used for boring holes it is a harder technique for the ancient. This is typical of modern jade cutting. such drill marks are produced by running a round diamond bur in the cut.

Subject:Excavated in 2003 - Jade Phoenix from M4 Tomb, N16 Site
Posted By: Jac Fri, Jan 17, 2014

The first photo below shows the funerary jades found in a Hongshan Culture stone coffin tomb excavated in 2003. See http://www.archaic-jade.com/hongshan/hongshan7.htm and http://www.kaogu.net.cn/html/en/Publication/New_books/2013/1025/30109.html for more information.

This calcified jade object that pillowed the head, which looked like a resting/sleeping swan to my eyes, which was frequently referred to as a jade "phoenix" is a first time discovery. The back of this phoenix is flat with four drill holes.

The middle picture shows a larger and sharper picture of the 19.5cm jade phoenix, presumably after washing/cleaning.

The bottom photo shows the details of the design/drawing of the eye of the phoenix, for reference and comparison with a mysterious jade animal sculpture which I intend to show in my next post.

My personal thoughts on this jade phoenix:

1. Had this jade phoenix been excavated illegally, who would believe that this "half of a bird", with no known example and a peculiar eye drawing/design is a genuine Hongshan Culture artifact?

2. There were no modern imitations of this jade phoenix prior to 2003 as modern jade carvers cannot make a copy of a genuine artifact before it is found and published.

3. It is unlikely that there is another genuine Hongshan Culture jade phoenix like the one excavated in 2003. All jade phoenix that look like the excavated piece are modern reproductions, unless proven otherwise.

The jade phoenixes from the webpages listed below looked a lot like the genuine one shown above. Could these items be of the Hongshan Culture period?

- http://www.rn-hswh.com/bbs/thread-84385-1-1.html

- http://www.rn-hswh.com/piccontent.asp?ID=308

Jac
From Singapore.
I am not a jade expert. I am an jade collector searching for answers.

P.S. I have changed my email address from [email protected] to [email protected]







Subject:Jade Animal Purchased in 1993 - Modern Fantasy or Ancient Mystery?
Posted By: Jac Sun, Jan 19, 2014

The photos below are that of a mysterious jade animal that I purchased in 1993, from a Chinese national, a stranger, who somehow managed to get my home phone number, called me and came to my home with a collection of jade & stone sculptures which he claimed are Hongshan Culture artifacts. I bought all he has to offer and asked for more but never heard from him again.

To my knowledge there is no example of a jade animal similar to this sculpture. This carving is either a fantasy piece if it is modern or a mystery piece, if ancient.

This nephrite animal sculpture, with a squirrel like body and an elongated moose like nose/mouth has a brown patch on one side of its body and the top part of its head. It has 3 ridges above its tail and on the underside of its body.

The design/drawing of the eyes of this animal sculpture is similar to the eyes of the jade phoenix shown in my previous post.

The length of this jade animal is 14 cm from tail to nose, maximum height 6 cm. It has no drill holes.

My thoughts on this jade animal:

1. If the brown patches on this sculpture is artificially created, it is a modern fantasy.

2. If the brown patches on this sculpture is from the skin of the jade pebble, it is a modern fantasy.

3. If the brown patches on this sculpture were not present on the original carving and is not artificially created but developed slowly over about 5,000 years of interaction with the environment, this piece a genuine, original carving created by an ancient neolithic human being.

If you see a piece like this for sale, at a price that you can afford, how would you evaluate it to determine if it is modern or ancient?







Subject:Happy Chinese New Year 2014
Posted By: Jac Thu, Jan 23, 2014

My first purchases of 2014, presented here without comment as I do not know when they were made or where they came from. The metal statue cost SGD 20. The jade pendant cost SGD 30. From the Sunday flea market, in Singapore.

To all the Chinese visitors to this thread - Happy Chinese New Year.

May you be blessed with all things good.

May the jades that you have collected reveal its beauty to you and bring you joy and happiness.





Subject:Clear Glass Like Layer On Archaic Jades
Posted By: Jac Fri, Feb 21, 2014

The pictures of three archaic jades from reputable museums/collection are presented here for reference.

These genuine Hongshan Culture & Shang dynasty jade sculptures appear to have a layer of shinny, transparent/clear glass like substance over its entire body.

Could the presence of this shinny, glass like coating on jades be used as a criteria to identify genuine archaic jades?








Subject:A Hongshan Culture Bird Totem, With Shinny Glass Like Coating
Posted By: Jac Fri, Feb 21, 2014

This 8cm high X 8.5cm wide Hongshan Culture nephrite bird carving has a layer of shinny, transparent glass like substance over its whole body, like the ones shown in my previous post.

The attached link (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bxfbo5l4s0itsos/Em5rd3vmRz) to a Dropbox folder has more detailed photos of this bird carving.








URL Title :Hongshan Culture Bird Totem


Subject:Higher Resolution Photos of The Majestic Hongshan Culture Bird
Posted By: Jac Tue, Apr 08, 2014

15cm wide, 15.5cm high.

Same bird as the one posted earlier. Seen from a different angles.

High resolution photos in this Dropbox folder:

https://www.dropbox.com/home/Majestic%20Upright%20Bird

"My genuine" Hongshan Culture jade sculpture.








URL Title :Majestic Upright Bird


Subject:Re: Higher Resolution Photos of The Majestic Hongshan Culture Bird
Posted By: Jac Wed, Apr 09, 2014

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3ngrkaqjjauxj69/-bgq9g0wDk

URL Title :Majestic Upright Bird


Subject:A Beautiful Black "Mati" (Horse Hoof) Cong
Posted By: Jac Sat, Jul 05, 2014

Height about 15cm. Material is opaque, non-magnetic.

Collected in the 1990s, from a jade runner from Northeast China.

I do not know what material this sculpture is made of. Do you?

Have you seen anything like this anywhere in this world?

Perhaps the rock used to shape this sculpture is from outer space.

The texture looks like the rock shown in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_utQFJ_Xgh8








URL Title :Martian Meteorite textures


Subject:Re: A Beautiful Black "Mati" (Horse Hoof) Cong
Posted By: Jac Sun, Jul 13, 2014

A short 1:20 Youtube video of the black hoof shaped object presented here for readers to form their own conclusions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aPdDgDcmjA&feature=youtu.be

What do you think it is, if you do not think it is what I said it could be?

Show us an example of any object with material/texture similar to this hoof shaped object, if you can.

Thanks.

URL Title :Black Hoof Shaped Object, Possible Hongshan Culture


Subject:A Shang Dynasty Green Jade Cong
Posted By: Jac Sun, Jul 20, 2014

Height - 10cm, Upper Outer Diameter - 6cm, Lower Outer Diameter - 5cm.

I have evaluated this cong which I purchased in the early 1990s for perhaps S$100 - S$150 and I have no reason to doubt its authenticity.

This cong is my reference standard for evaluating/identifying other neolithic/archaic jade sculptures.

Material - you see and decide for yourself. It looks like deep green nephrite jade to my eyes.

I believed this cong is created around the Shang dynasty period, but I have no idea which culture created this piece or the geographical location in China where it came from.

For comparison, go to the link below to see somewhat similar 8.9cm cong sold for HK$211,500 (US$27,305) in November 2007 in HK:

http://www.christies.com.cn/LotFinder/custom/lot_details.aspx?pos=7&intObjectID=5000247&sid=

Perhaps this posting could help you to determine what could be genuine, in your hunt for archaic jades from flea markets or estate sales.

High resolution photos:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mm1i2syzlpln70h/AAD5T2822usCKfw4tIL_qKsIa








URL Title :Shang Dynasty Green Cong


Subject:A Glimpse Of My Knee Height C Shaped Dragon
Posted By: Jac Sun, Jul 27, 2014

Height 50cm.

I show here a part of the surface of the knee height large C shaped dragon that I said I have.

Does the surface looks modern or ancient to your eyes?

This piece does not appear to be a modern imitation to me.



Subject:IConfident My Knee Height C Shaped Dragon Is Genuine
Posted By: Jac Tue, Oct 25, 2016

After close to 4 years of studies and research on Hongshan Culture artifacts, I am confident the 50 cm large C shaped dragon that I purchased from a stranger in the early 1990s is GENUINE.

I have said that I will only show it here if I believed it is genuine. See the photo of the full dragon below.

Perhaps the largest genuine Hongshan Culture C shaped dragon in the world.

Certainly the most beautiful, in my eyes.

For comparison, see the photo of a C shaped dragon from a reputable museum in China, top photo.







Subject:A Neolithic Jade Turtle With Ancient Text
Posted By: Jac Sun, Aug 03, 2014

Length - 12cm, Width - 7cm.

Material - Green nephrite jade?

The shape of this turtle is similar to genuine unearthed Hongshan Culture jade turtles that you can see from the internet.

What I believed to be ancient text can be seen on the upper and lower back of the turtle.

Based on my examination of the entire surface of this turtle under 30X magnification, I believe this jade turtle is not a modern reproduction. Most likely post Hongshan Culture, prior to Xia dynasty.

High resolution photos:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/c6mxwmwyr2a0q90/AAAdm43gZREoQLgZRZ_jo-iHa








URL Title :Neolithic Jade Turtle With Ancient Text


Subject:1,368 pieces from 104 collectors, examined by 12 archaeologists, exhibited in 19 renowned public museums around the world
Posted By: Jac Thu, Sep 25, 2014

http://www.bjreview.com.cn/report/txt/2014-07/17/content_630072.htm

2014 United Nations Hongshan Ancient Jade Exhibition was held in the UN headquarters in New York on July 15.

The exhibition, sponsored by UN SRC Chinese Book Club and Institute of Asian Ancient Civilizations, brings the best Hongshan jade articles out of 1,368 pieces of fine artifacts from 104 collectors in the United States, Canada, Australia, Japan, and others, all examined by 12 reputable Chinese archaeologists.

From 2005 to 2009, these exhibits have been exhibited in 19 renowned public museums around the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMpMJH_H2gM

-------------------------------------------------------

A few Hongshan Culture masterpieces like the one shown below, with irrefutable marks of authenticity, was unfortunately left out of the exhibition, but you get to see them here.

Below are additional pictures of the 17cm "mother" C shaped dragon carrying a "child" pig dragon, which I had posted earlier in this thread.








URL Title :Trending 9,000 Years and Counting: Chinese Jade


Subject:Buying Neolithic Jade in Shanghai
Posted By: David H Sun, Dec 07, 2014

Hi there
I am in Shanghai on vacation and I would like to buy a small authentic Neolithic Jade Bi disk (3 to 4 inches in diameter) from a reputable dealer while I am here. Can anybody give me contact info for a reputable dealer that I might be able to buy from in Shanghai?
Thank you in advance
David

Subject:Jade Sparrow. Neolithic? Hongshan Culture?
Posted By: jac Sat, Jan 24, 2015

Max height: 9 cm. Max length: 16 cm.








Subject:Jade Fish. Neolithic? Hongshan Culture?
Posted By: jac Mon, Jan 26, 2015

Maximum Length: 17 cm.

Surface polished with fine sandpaper to remove dirt.

White calcified patches appears to be authentic, not faked.

Purchased in the early 1990s, as with the previous piece (jade sparrow).

The holes were drilled for a reason. Picture illustrate how I thought those holes could have been used.








Subject:Round Cong With Three Pupas. Neolithic? Hongshan Culture?
Posted By: jac Wed, Jan 28, 2015

Height: 9.5 cm. Inner diameter: 6 cm.

I don't know what it is made of. Not nephrite jade.

Purchased in the early 1990s.

I have another round cong which I am quite certain is made of nephrite jade and not a recent or old imitation.








Subject:Round Nephrite Cong With Three Cicadas
Posted By: jac Tue, Feb 10, 2015

Height: 11 cm
Diameter: 7.5 cm

Material: Nephrite (based on my own visual evaluation).

Age: Likely post Hongshan Culture to Shang dynasty period.

Purchased in the mid 1990s.







Subject:A Jade Horse Hoof Cong With A Face
Posted By: Jac Tue, May 12, 2015

Maximum Height: 11 cm.

Base Diameter: 7 cm.

Material: Looks like nephrite.

Purchased in the mid 1990s.







Subject:Black Jade, Mystery Object
Posted By: Jac Sun, May 17, 2015

Height: 7 cm. Max. Length: 16 cm. Width: 6 cm.

Material: Black nephrite jade?







Subject:A Round Hollow Liangzhu Ornament, Incised With 4 Images
Posted By: Jac Mon, May 18, 2015

Outer Diameter: 8.2 cm. Inner Diameter: 6.2 cm. Height: 3.4 cm.

Material: Does not look like nephrite jade to me and I do not know what it is made of.

Incised with 4 very fine images on its surface.

One of a pair that I purchased in the mid 1990s. Could not remember the price I paid for them.







Subject:A Round Hollow Liangzhu Ornament, Engraved With 3 Images
Posted By: Jac Tue, May 19, 2015

Outer Diameter: 7.6 cm. Inner Diameter: 6.3 cm. Height 4.1 cm.

Material: Unknown to me.








Subject:Palm Sized Hongshan Culture C-Shaped Dragon
Posted By: Jac Thu, May 28, 2015

Maximum Height: 11 cm. Maximum Length: 11 cm.

Material: Green nephrite.

Purchased in the mid 1990s.

I am confident this palm size C-shaped dragon is a genuine Hongshan Culture artifact.

I believed C-shaped dragons, like the pig dragons, are totems of major Honghan Culture tribes.







Subject:A Top Grade Pig Dragon Is Worth USD 2.5 Million?
Posted By: Jac Mon, Jun 08, 2015

Below is the video that I chanced upon in late 2012 which revived my interest in the Hongshan Culture jades that I collected in the 1990s.

https://youtu.be/3tMbp61lv9E

According to the presenter in the video (uploaded in Nov 2009), at 0.42s, a legally excavated pig dragon in a museum in China (shown below) is worth USD 2.5M according to the authorities there.

A pig dragon taken illegally from a Hongshan Culture excavation site by an archaeologist was sold for 3.2 million renminbi (about $520,000) to a collected, as reported in the article below, recently.

http://sinosphere.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/05/27/chinese-tomb-robbers-used-fengshui-high-tech-probes-to-steal-antiquities/?_r=3

http://hyperallergic.com/210302/tomb-raiding-archaeologists-snared-in-chinese-antiquities-trafficking-bust/






URL Title :Royal Asiatic Society (HK) Hongshan Lecture Part1


Subject:A Large 36 cm Horse Hoof Cong, Hongshan Culture?
Posted By: Jac Thu, Jun 25, 2015

This horse hoof cong has a maximum height of 36 cm at the back and 19 cm at the front.

Material looks like nephrite. No white lines seen after repeated scratch test with a steel needle.

This horse hoof object cannot possibly be an ornament for the head/hair, due to its size and weight.

I have another bigger horse hoof cong. Both are old collection, from the 1990s.

I have searched Singapore for the past 2.5 years and had came across only two Hongshan Culture object which I thought could be the real thing - one is a small pig dragon pendant made of white colored stone with rusted metal attached to it.

Seller asked for just S$50 but I did not buy it immediately as I do not believe Hongshan Culture had anything made of iron/metal.

When I return the next week to buy it after additional research, it was sold. I should have bought it first and use it as a study piece if it turn out to be fake.







Subject:Genuine Unearthed Horse Hoof Cong - For Reference & Comparison
Posted By: Jac Wed, Jul 01, 2015

Photos of genuine unearthed Hongshan Culture horse hoof congs displayed in museums, for reference and comparison.

A horse hoof cong is not a tribal totem. It is a common artifact found in Hongshan Culture graves.

The two most common Hongshan Culture artifacts in my collection are horse hoof congs and C-shaped dragons.







Subject:A 13.3 cm Neolithic Hollow Grooved Jade Cylinder
Posted By: Jac Sat, Jun 27, 2015

Height 13.3 cm, with a wider diameter of 7 cm on one end and a narrower diameter of 6.5 cm on the opposite end.

I believed this seldom seen large hollow grooved nephrite cylinder is a ritual object made by ancient humans in Northeast China.

The absence of any carvings on its surface suggest that it could have been made before the iron/bronze age in China.

It would be irresponsible of me to call this piece a modern copy, imitation, fake, replica, reproduction or styled object.

Don't you agree?

Old collection, purchased in the 1990s from a jade dealer/runner from Northeast China.







Subject:A 9.5 cm Double Faced Cylindrical Jade Tube?
Posted By: Jac Mon, Jun 29, 2015

This hollow cylindrical jade tube has a height of 9.5 cm and diameter or 4 cm.

It has a face carved in relief on each half of the surface of the tube.

The face has two horns and oval shaped eyes with large eyeballs.

Have you seen anything like this, anywhere?

Perhaps the face carved on this tube is that of a chief/leader of a large ancient tribe in China, worshiped by his descendants and followers.

Based on my studies and research on archaic jades, through the internet, over the past 2.5 years, I believed this piece is not a modern or old imitation/copy/reproduction/fake/style.

Perhaps made during the period after Hongshan Culture prior to Shang Dynasty.

I can only think of one legendary figure in Chinese history that I can attribute a horned face/head to - that of Chiyou.

Attached is a video on Hmong History & Chiyou.

https://youtu.be/OAQeEQPI9oM








URL Title :Hmong History: Chiyou 蚩尤, the Miao Nationality and the Ancient Dongyi


Subject:A 9.5 cm Double Faced Cylindrical Jade Tube - More Photos
Posted By: Jac Tue, Jun 30, 2015

More photos, for those who have difficulty in identifying the face carved on the jade tube.

A rare piece of ancient Chinese history, lost in the hands of a private collector?







Subject:The Face of A Goddess?
Posted By: Jac Sun, Sep 20, 2015

https://echildsjohnson.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/jadesofthehongshanculture.pdf

On a mountain top complex at the Niuheliang Hongshan Culture site, archaeologists found a life size clay head with a flat back attached to a wooden support with no body. See top and middle photo.

Pregnant clay figures without heads were found at the complex which may have led archaeologists to conclude that the clay head is that of a Goddess.

Perhaps this celebrated clay head is not female but male as it has a high forehead and a sunken mouth similar to the male clay sculpture shown on the bottom photo.

I have a life size, hard stone face/burial mask that looked similar to this clay head and I believed it is male, not female.

Perhaps the clay face is that of a Hongshan Culture tribal chief/ruler who was revered and worshiped as their ancestor God.

https://youtu.be/m-1mY1pMdJM








URL Title :Niuheliang Secret


Subject:The Face of A Hongshan Culture God
Posted By: Jac Wed, Sep 23, 2015

A life size hardstone face/burial mask of an important Hongshan Culture male figure, perhaps their Ancestor God.

Maximum height: 21.5 cm. Maximum length: 19 cm.

Purchased in the mid 1990s.

The earlobes has a hole, perhaps for slit rings made of jade.

Bottom photo shows the back of the face mask.








URL Title :Niuheliang Secret


Subject:Male Hongshan Culture Chief/Ruler Wears Ear Rings?
Posted By: Jac Thu, Sep 24, 2015

I collected this burial mask in the mid 1990s, before archaeologists in China discovered the 55 cm Hongshan Culture male pottery figure in Inner Mongolia in 2012.

When I first saw the this face mask, I knew it cannot be an imitation but I wondered why the artist drill holes on the ears.

Now I know the holes are there because this face mask is a genuine Hongshan Culture object as the 55 cm Hongshan Culture male pottery figure discovered in 2012 also has ears with holes.

More close up photos of the face mask, for those who could appreciate the beauty of this genuine Hongshan Culture masterpiece.







Subject:A Hongshan Culture Jade Face Object With Rhombic Lattice Carved Lines, From Museum
Posted By: Jac Thu, Sep 24, 2015

First two photos below are that of a genuine Hongshan Culture jade face object from a museum in China, perhaps an unearthed piece, from the markings at the back of the object.

From the middle photo of the jade face object, we can see rhombic lattice lines/carvings on the chin of the face, most likely signifying hair/beard of a man.

Based on this evidence, I believe the rhombic lattice pattern found on Hongshan Culture jades represents hair or perhaps signify or represent the male gender.

The bottom photo, taken from a museum in China, shows a Hongshan Culture C-shaped dragon with rhombic lattice lines on its chin.

Ancient Hongshan Culture artists carved rhombic lattice lines on the chin of C shaped dragons for a reason, perhaps to differentiate a male dragon from a female dragon.

I created this post to show that my opinion that the face mask in my previous post is that of a male figure is based hard evidence.

The face mask in my previous post has lattice rhombic lines above the forehead, perhaps created by ancient Hongshan Culture sculptor to signify a male figure.







Subject:A 3 Tiers Liangzhu Cong With Face Motifs In Low Relief
Posted By: Jac Tue, Dec 29, 2015

Dimensions: Slightly tapered, Height 8.6 cm, Width 6.9 cm (upper), 6.5 cm (lower). Inner rim diameter 5.2 cm at the top, 5.2 cm at the bottom.

Material: Olive green nephrite with blackish green speckles.

Why I believed this cong is an authentic Liangzhu Culture carving:

1. Shape, size, surface carvings and workmanship are comparable to excavated Liangzhu congs displayed in museums.

2. It has whitish cleaved veins across its surface that resembles those seen on excavated Liangzhu Culture jades.

3. Pits & cracks and areas where the jade surface has turned opaque white looked natural and not artificially induced.

4. Surface is smooth and shinny with no traces of modern machine tools.

5. It does not look or feel like modern imitation pieces.

A brilliant piece that reflect the spirit of the carver and aura of an ancient civilization.

Purchased on 05 Dec 2015 from a jade dealer in Singapore who claimed he had sold antiques to a local museum. Asking price was SGD 6,000. He said he had kept this piece with him for more than 15 years.

Top photo is enhanced, the rest are not.







Subject:A Hollow Jade Cylinder with 4 Cicadas
Posted By: Jac Fri, May 27, 2016

A hollow jade cylinder with grooves and 4 cicadas in high relief. Height: 11.5 cm. Diameter: 7.5 cm. Neolithic Period, China.







Subject:A 32 cm Jade Sceptre
Posted By: Jac Fri, Jul 15, 2016

A 32 cm jade sceptre unique to Hongshan Culture.

Perhaps a symbolic object related to ancient obstetrics.

Purchased in Singapore in the mid 1990s.







Subject:3 Hoof Shaped Congs, From Recent Auctions
Posted By: Jac Mon, Dec 26, 2016

Top - From Christie's Hong Kong auction on 30 Nov 2016. Sold for USD 38,858

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/a-celadon-jade-horseshoe-form-ornament-late-neolithic-6043113-details.aspx?from=salesummery&intobjectid=6043113&sid=2462d669-3f5c-4c3d-999e-fb6656f8546f

Middle - From Sotheby's Paris auction on 15 Dec 16. Sold for EUR 367,500.

http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2016/jades-archaiques-de-chine-pf1627/lot.23.html

Bottom - From Sotheby's Hong Kong auction on 02 Dec 16. Unsold despite a low estimate, perhaps because it does not look right.

http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2016/chinese-art-hk0681/lot.613.html







Subject:Re: 3 Hoof Shaped Congs, From Recent Auctions
Posted By: JLim Fri, Sep 15, 2017



Thank Christ this guy stopped posting. The worst part was, some people seemed to be taken in, and were genuinely asking him for advice. Wow. Just, wow.

On the other hand, Jac will be a character in my latest novel. Self-delusion on a grand scale has its own drama.


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