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Subject:High quality Shang Bronze reproductions?
Posted By: Ben Fri, Jun 13, 2025 IP: 154.47.22.82

I love early Chinese ritual bronzes, but in my early 20s I regrettably don't have a house's-worth of funds to dump into purchasing an authentic piece. That brings me to my question.

If I were to want to purchase a high quality reproduction of a Ding, Gui, or Gu from the Shang to Early Western Zhou periods, where/who would be the best source? I understand much of this high end reproduction work would be anonymous in nature but I'd love to be able to support a modern artisan as a consolation prize for not being able to afford the real thing.

(Extra thanks to anyone who could help me with the same request but for Olmec or Chavin sculpture, as Pre-Columbian art is my other love in the ancient world.)

Thank you!

Subject:Re: High quality Shang Bronze reproductions?
Posted By: rat Mon, Jun 16, 2025

Un/fortunately (as you prefer), just about anything you find desirable and sold as Shang at auction houses outside the absolute top of that field will qualify as a reproduction these days. Not sure where the locus of forgeries is for archaic bronzes these days though.

Subject:Re: High quality Shang Bronze reproductions?
Posted By: Ben Tue, Jun 17, 2025

So basically are you saying that there would be no meaningful savings in buying a reproduction because any reproductions of high enough quality to satisfy a collector/amateur art historian would just be passed off as legitimate and priced accordingly?

So if I want a high quality fake it would be marketed as real and I'd still likely be paying the price of a used car, and if I want an authentic piece I should just rob a bank?

Subject:Re: High quality Shang Bronze reproductions?
Posted By: rat Thu, Jun 19, 2025

Basically, yes. It's a cynical opinion of mine, but the number of fakes in the marketplace for Chinese antiques (in nearly all media) is painfully high. Many appear in local/regional/online auctions. If you see something you would like to have at a price you can afford, buy it on the assumption that it is a replica. Genuine later bronzes are available at $1K-$2K, but genuine Shang bronzes at that price will be far from museum quality.

Subject:Re: High quality Shang Bronze reproductions?
Posted By: Brian Sat, Jul 12, 2025

Rat's opinion isn't just cynical, it's wildly incorrect and pretty much the opposite of the truth.

Practically all Shang/Zhou bronzes in circulation are real, and you'd never find an artisan Shang/Zhou reproducer because they've never existed.

I'm including a screenshot from Ebay; the examples shown are almost certain to be genuine. The only downside in general is that the attractive ones have often been sold already, i.e. despite the listing being active. Also, you can't count on any Shang vs. Zhou distinction made, and occasionally you might find something miscategorized as Shang or Zhou, for instance from the Han Dynasty. But modern reproduction? There's virtually no chance at all.



Subject:Re: High quality Shang Bronze reproductions?
Posted By: Ben Sun, Jul 13, 2025

Brian,

From where did you get this information? According to Christian Deydier, one of the leading dealers in the field, there is a large prevalence of fakes. That Ding with the human face in your eBay screenshot is a great example—I believe you can count on one hand the number of authentic examples with that human face motif—at least the number of museum quality examples, of which, if it were real, that piece would certainly be one.

I’ve attached the first pages on the section regarding fakes from Deydier’s overview on archaic bronzes.



Subject:Re: High quality Shang Bronze reproductions?
Posted By: David Brian Mon, Jul 14, 2025

Hi Ben,

Deydier's whole passage reads like BS to me.

Having an antiques dealer talk about "fakes on the market" is like asking a car dealer what his opinion is of all the other car dealerships in town.

Museums that lead people to believe the museum's examples are just "ones of handfuls" aren't much different from Deydier either.


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