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Subject:Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Richard Sun, Jan 23, 2011 IP: 193.165.72.3 Some years ago I bought these bowl in the island of Java. I have no idea if they are new or old, I just like them. Would anybody write some word about them? |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Bowl 2 Mon, Jan 24, 2011 Bowl Number 2 |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Bowl n 3 Mon, Jan 24, 2011 Bowl number 3 |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Bowl n 4 Mon, Jan 24, 2011 Bowl number 4 |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Bowl n 5 Mon, Jan 24, 2011 Bowl number 5 |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Bowl n 6 Mon, Jan 24, 2011 Bowl number 6 |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify - Bowl n 7
Posted By: Richard Mon, Jan 24, 2011 Bowl number 7 |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify - Bowl n 8
Posted By: Richard Mon, Jan 24, 2011 Bowl number 8 |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Bill H Mon, Jan 24, 2011 The 'Xi' (happiness) characters and other decorative elements are roughly drawn. While these bowls could have been exported by a 'minyao' (popular wares) kiln, perhaps in Fujian province, my impression is that Chinese export wares usually were decorated better and had more precise calligraphy. As such, I think it would be wise to maintain some suspicion as to the possibility of these bowls having been produced by a kiln somewhere in Southeast Asia, maybe in Annam (old name for Vietnam). Similar wares were made in China from Ming to modern times. |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Bill H Tue, Jan 25, 2011 FYI, I showed up before Richard had finished downloading all images. My preceding comment only pertained to bowl 1. |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Bill H Tue, Jan 25, 2011 Further to my earlier comments, I'd opine that bowl 3 has decoration and glazing comparable to what I've seen and handled in the way of authenticated transitional and early Qing blue & white export wares. |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Roger Tue, Jan 25, 2011 These appear to be typical Indonesian replicas of Chinese "shipwreck" bowls.Similar pottery is available in the many stalls along Jalan Surabaya in Jakarta. Although it is possible to find some genuine antiques in the five or six block market, some of the higher priced items are very well made replicas. I have a home in Bekasi,near Jakarta, and make it a point to visit the market on Jalan Surabaya several times each year. |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Arjan Wed, Jan 26, 2011 Hi all, |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Richard Wed, Jan 26, 2011 I hardly breathe when I see email notifying new reply in this forum. Your knowledge is great. |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: phil Wed, Jan 26, 2011 Most of your bowls, thats the ones with the double happiness character on them were produced in Fujian province during the latter part of the 19thC, (roughly 1860-1910, could be a bit later) They were very common export items mainly to South East Asia, although similar pieces have also been excavated in Chinese settlements, (such as railroad & mining sites) in the U.S. Due to their use by manual labourers in both SEA & the US these bowls are commonly referred to as "Tin Miners bowls" Due to the huge numbers these bowls were made in they often bear an inscribed or "tattooed" owners mark, usually referred to erroneously by hopeful ebay sellers as an "artists signature." |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: phil Wed, Jan 26, 2011 Reading others comments I see some doubt the authenticity of some of these pieces, I`ll reiterate I think all are OK & of the periods stated in my last post. To date the two Ming bowls, (bowls #4 & 6) accurately I`d suggest looking at the website of N.H. Koh, (Kohs antiques) |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: phil Wed, Jan 26, 2011 p.s. The bowl shown in Bills 3rd post is a modern version of the old "Lingzi & Tea flower" motif which dates to the Ming dynasty but has been produced continually since then, with only a progressive deterioation in the quality of the decor. Here`s an early Qing, (Kangxi / Yongzheng) version of the same motif. |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: phil Wed, Jan 26, 2011 " am going to visit Beijing soon, is there any shop with some old stuff hopefully no copies? For reasonable price?" |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Arjan Thu, Jan 27, 2011 Hi Richard, |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Bill H Thu, Jan 27, 2011 Arjan, I'm much obliged for your comment mentioning Daoguang. I thought at the outset I'd seen the bowl 3 pattern described as Qing but when I went looking for examples in my archives, the best I found initially was an unmarked transitional bowl with Indian lotus motif and less profuse scroll. |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Arjan Thu, Jan 27, 2011 Hi Bill and all, |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Bill H Fri, Jan 28, 2011 Thanks much for the additional information. It may be that the scrawled look of that Daoguang export mark, as well as similar ones on some Qianlong and Jiaqing wares, took inspiration from the Ming lattice marks, Either that or a lot of Ming and Qing minyao kilns just couldn't afford professional calligraphers. |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: steve Mon, Apr 21, 2014 Hello, |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Samuel Tan Hadinata Fri, Apr 25, 2014 I will not claim that I am an expert, but I collect (lots) Blue and White Ming, some Ching and two Yuen Porcelain since 1976. Was Gothenburg forum member. I am Chinese Fukienese born in Middle Java, Indonesia. 1971 live in Germany and since 1986 live in California. Master of Applied Engineering (Architect) and Furniture Designer. I studied Chinese furniture joinery. I know quite a bit about Blue and White. I will not touch any, except #3 Crack, Common, #4 Kiln crack (ok),Edge Chip, Swatow (sand) and #6 Edge Chip, Crack, Common. They all Ming, but I don't think any of it is Kangxi (the peak). Don't ever buy in Jalan Surabaya, Jakarta. |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Richard Fri, Apr 25, 2014 Thanks for your replies after some time since I have posted it. |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: Samuel Tan Hadinata Fri, Apr 25, 2014 I am amused to see the "Double Happiness" chops on Indonesian fakes above that are not written by Chinese. Their strokes are totally wrong you could spot it right away. Those "Double Happiness" is the most used by us in every wedding invitation, for sure Indonesian saw them over and over. |
Subject:Re: Chinese bowl - please identify
Posted By: JLim Tue, May 27, 2014
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