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Dear All,

I have just sent out the other message. I was trying to put the two beads on the same thread. But, now I realize that I can't put them on the same thread until the other message comes out. I decided to go ahead to make a second thread.

This is a very long size ancient Chung dZi line-beads(Tiger Stripe). It has extensive weathering and degradation.

Randy Li

Hi, Randy:

Beautiful beads, especially the other one.

I do believe you can post both beads at the same thread if you put the descriptions of both beads under the same message and title but post their pictures in the same message (up to three pictures), you just have to post one picture at a time and make sure each picture is less than 100kb. (see pic)

Bill

Dear Bill,

Thank you! Do you believe that the beads are ancient? (=:

As for dZi beads and Chung dZi beads, the bead has to be at least of Tang Dynasty(618 -906 A.D.) or older to be qualified as an ancient bead. Just like jades, some ancient beads survive the weathering and alterations. Some lucky beads were buried in dry ground with balanced PH.

I have no problem posting more than one picture in the same message. But, I sent the message out before I remembered that I had one more picture to post last time. Once the message has been sent, I won't see it again until after it has been posted in the forum.

Randy Li (=:

Hello Randy,

Sorry to be again the one bring you bad news, this is a modern agate bead, alteration comes from chemicals. (Light reflect and weathering problems).

I will post later one or two pictures of old agate and eyed Dzi beads to illustrate my post. the picture I post now comes from a reference book.

In china old Dzi beads would cost 1000 to 15 000 Euros depending on quality, age, size and number of eyes.

As you might know I manage a network of antique dealers and collectors that covers Europe, Taiwan and China mainland. If you're interested I can source some for you...We do have a Tibetan antiques specialist in our network who could help you find what you are looking for.

Regards,

Pipane

Dear Pipane,

If you can't recognize the above bead. This is a big problem! How can I believe you if you can not even identify the above bead's patina, internal calcination and the very obvious natural dissolution cavity. The above bead is as if dZi Bead 101. How can I take English lesson from someone who flunked his or her English 101 ???

FYI, good ancient dZi beads and Chung dZi can't be from China. The picture you posted contains some modern replica and some so-called "Middle-Period" beads.

I have seen pictures of some pure dZi beads that were previously owned by royalties that was valued from 1/4 to 3/4 $million U.S.D. They were at one time offered to me, but I was and am still is too poor to spend that kind of money. (=:

Happy Chinese New Year!

Randy Li

What reference book is this photo from please?

It should be:

Collectible Beads: A Universal Aesthetic
Robert K. Liu
ISBN-10: 0964102307
ISBN-13: 9780964102309

Actually the picture comes from a calendar they edited a few years ago.

Regards,

Pipane

Dear Randy,

I don't recognize the bead you posted; that's the point.

Where do you think weathering comes from?
How do you explain that type of surface aspect (and light reflect). What about crackles?

Again picture I posted comes from a very common reference book, and yes you're right a bead like the fourth one starting from the top (for instance) is modern and some are "middle-period" beads.

I understand I might be wrong about your bead but if you can post here pictures of its holes I would be happy to: 1) apologize if I am wrong 2) explain why if I am right.

Regards,

Pipane

Dear Pipane,

Do not worry about apologizing! This forum is for everyone to freely express how everyone perceives from a different standpoint. Anyway, it is just a picture and the picture's quality may affect the judgement. I am still learning how to use my camera.

We need to know all of the different types of processing that the dZi beads and Chung dZi beads were processed. The dissolution cavity appears natural on this bead's surface. The calcination that extended deep into the bead through micro-fissures are natural, thus very hard to duplicate. The fading of some lines and black color spots. The aged ivory yellow line as compared to the stained/oxidized lighter white line. The patina on the darkest spot as compared to the light black spot. And the logic, why would a faker purposedly deface the bead. Have you seen a faked bead like the above? (=:

It is just like your Neolithic items that you posted a while back. I recognized the age on some of them, but no one cared to talk about them. That meant that the items did not create enough interest.

Randy Li

Hi Pipane,

"...from a very common reference book, and yes you're right a bead like the fourth one starting from the top (for instance) is modern and some are "middle-period" beads. "

I was confused by the photo of the beads you posted. Many looked like beads I actually own? When you mentioned the Bead calendar it became clear that the beads posted were taken from it. At least half of the beads pictured are in my own collection and were collected more than twenty years ago in Nepal. The six-eyed dzi (fourth from the top) you mention is absolutely authentic and not a modern bead. Please do not confuse them with such very rare items as "pink amber".

And the "middle period" beads? Maybe you could you explain which ones and why??

Some of these beads were also published in "Collectable Beads" and in Ornament Magazine and were subsequently made into postcards also. As I have loaned objects for articles numerous times I have observed that when someone else uses your objects you have no editorial control over how they are used or where they may show up.

This is only one example of what I mean but there are many more.............

I respect your information Pipane and realize it is a confusing subject but think you may have me confused with some other "collectors" here?

I realize strange things happen on this message board but don't assume we all live in Fantasyland.

Humbly submitted for your approval...... ;-D

Dear Art,

Would you be able to share with us a better picture on your six eye dZi bead? A picture from a print won't be clear enough!

Also, a close-up of the line ChungdZi on top of the big Tiger-Strpe line bead(second to the left bottom) will clear the cloud.

Do you have a website?

Best regards,
Randy Li

Dear Pipane,
could you please explain what you mean by the term
"middle-period" when you refer to the Dzi and Chung dzi beads? And where did this description originate?

Mehmet

Dear Robert,

Very pleased and honored to read you.

You're perfectly right, I get confused after reading Randy post.

Thing is there is very good reproduction of that type of bead in China (made of glass I assume).

About "middle age" beads I must confess I have no idea what it is (just like "pink amber"). I get it from Randy post and assumed that he might be right this time.

I hope you will be kind enough to accept my apologize for posting here picture of your book without your agreement.
Even more I apologize for writing here that some of these beads could be modern since your book (Collectible Beads: A Universal Aesthetic; Robert K. Liu, ISBN-10: 0964102307, ISBN-13: 9780964102309) present modern collectible beads clearly separated from old ones.

I would be happy if we could keep contact, occasionally I would like to summit you pictures of some beads I got.

Sincerely,

Pipane

Pipane Art Gallery

Dear Pipane,

I like to talk to Robert! Do you have his email address?


Thanks!

Randy Li

The photograph shown is taken from a calendar I produced in 1995, for the year 1996. That work is called "Eye Beads And Magic Amulets." I borrowed some of the zi beads (seen here) from Robert�whom I know. However, he is NOT Robert K. Liu of Ornament magazine�and the author of Collectible Beads! I have known Robert Liu since 1974, have written articles for him since that time, and was his paid consultant for the book Collectible Beads. And yes, the other Robert's zi beads are also seen in Collectible Beads. Robert has been generous in lending these excellent specimens for limited publication. However, writing to him will not put you in contact with Robert Liu.

Jamey D. Allen

Pipapane is very wrong on everything sadly. I am even sure why you call that glass it's clear as a daylight it's an etched agate. Middle age? What's that? Ancient is ancient over 1000 years old. Any less it isn't. Give or take few hundred years. It's called antique. That bead looks ok to me from here, however it's a photo without seen the shine in daylight and the sides and homes it's difficult. Also because it's not in the book doesn't mean it's not ancient. What do you mean you n't recognize the bead? It's a 7 line Chung.

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