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Here are two vases, one old, and one modern. Some jade experts would call them both modern but I assure you one is very old! Both are works of fine art. Being a collectors site, I am curious as to which is the most valuable?

In order to answer, we need close-ups of those vases to verify if they are indeed made of jade. Try to take at least 2 - 3 pictures of each. Larger pictures, better answers.
Ernest

Patrick,

See the thread below concerning difficulty of evaluating jade items.

No one could comment even on stylistic features of your vases, from your tiny picture.

From photographs alone no one could say whether one of your vases is made of jade.

Good luck,
Cal

URL Title :Kevin\'s disc

Dear Patrick:

It would be a miracle if anybody can tell anything about these two "jade" pieces you posted here because their pictures were simply too small and too low-resolution. Bigger and close up pictures of each piece will surely help. By the way, what is your definition of "modern" and for that matter, "old"?

Thanks.

Bill

Modern is cut and shaped with power tools; and old pounded and polished. Honestly you have to have the piece in your hands to get inside the vases and feel the texture of the stone. In my opinion, jade is a gemstone and a piece of art, and weather new or old the quality (gem) and artist are more important. The thumbnails photos? Do not upload files larger than 100 KB in size. I see Bills e-mail listed to get larger photos.

Hi, Patrick:

One time I was trying to ask forum members here to define "modern jades" or "modern jade fakes" but none could.

One guy at another jade forum says any jades that are less than 100 years old would be considered "modern".

I actually agree with your definition of modern and old jade carvings - by the carving techniques found on them.

However, you are missing something in your message regarding "old" jades.

Both new and old jades would be polished. I have no idea what "pounded" meant.

Manual tools and manual labor had been employed in the cutting, "carving" (you really could not carve jades) and polishing of jade carvings for many years in China. In early 60s, these manual tools were replaced by high-speed electrical cutting and polishing tools with high-hardness polishing paste. Very often by examining the tool marks, the carving techniques and the polishing surface of a jade piece, one may be able to tell if a jade piece is modern or not. However, to attribute an "old" jade piece accurately (as to its age or correct dynasty, etc.) is another matter and would take a real jade expert to do so. Most of the time, we cannot do so with pictures alone (not even high-resolution pictures).

I can only agree with you to a certain degree in that the only important factors for the value of a jade carving would be its quality (of jade) and it quality of carving. I believe its authenticity (and age) is almost more important than the other two, in a lot of cases.

Of course, a jade collector is entitled to his/her opinion. Very often, for some hetian jade carvings, the quality of jade material and that of caring are indeed the most important factor affecting their resale values.

You can post bigger pictures in this forum, just not in high resolution.

Bill

Hi Patrick,

The limitation of the size of the file, has little to do with the size of the photo.

When you save a photo within your photo software as a .jpg, you are usually given an option of what quality level to save it at (JPEG Options), usually on a scale of 1 to 12.

This will control how much information the photo is saved with.
At a higher setting, it would have more information, and thusly be a larger file. This might mean that I could download your photo and be able to blow it up to a larger size without much loss of quality.

At a lower setting it will display in the forum just fine, but I would not be able to enlarge it without it getting blocky.

So, in your photo software, crop the photo to include just the object, and then size it at about 600 x 600 pixels, click File, Save As, select where you want to save it to (desktop is handy), name the file and click Save, this will usually open your JPEG Options window, which should have a quality slider, select a value of 5 or 6 and click OK. DON'T close the photo just yet...check the size first.
If you saved to your desktop, you should now find the photo there.
Placing your cursor over the file should open a box to tell you what the size is. If it is larger than 100 KB, DELETE the file on your desktop, go back to the photo software and repeat the process with a lower value from 6 to 5, or from 5 to 4 etc, and resave the file to your desktop, and re-check the size.

Another option is to go to Webshots, open a free account, and upload your full-sized photos there. You can then copy the address of the folder the photos are in and paste it into the Link URL: field just below the message field you are typing in for the forum, then in the URL Title field just below that, type in My Webshots folder, and you should be good to go.

Cheers
Gman

I am helping Patrick to post his pieces here from the pictures he e-mailed me.

More

Interestingly he told me a lady from China who saw the pictures of his collections told him that they were indeed made of "jade" and said most people had no idea what "jade" is. She said this was real jade, Xiu Yan jade, the national jade in China.

In a way, she is right, if that is, you would go by the Chinese way of defining jade - any stones that are beuatiful or one more step further, beautiful stons that possess the five virtues.

Indeed, some archaic jades were made of Xiu Yan jade and Dushan jade. However, by western standard or standard used by most today's jade collectors, I am afraid Xiu Yan jade, a serpentine (or some called it bowenite) should not be called "jade" and carvings made of such should not be labeled as "jade carvings" without clarifications.

Furthermore, Patrick believes these carvings were made of Suzhou (Soochow) jade because bowenite was mined in Suzhou. I do not believe I can agree with him in that because I could not find any references regarding Suzhou being a large production area of bowenite or serpentine. I came upon one Chinese reference which says this type of serpentine carvings were called "Suzhou jade" was because Suzhou was the largest "Jade Carving Center" in China and many such carvings made of Xiu Yan jade were carved there. 80% of the serpentine/bowenite jade in China were mined in Xiu Yan, Liaoning, China.

I believe another member in this forum had told him that most of his carvings were made of serpentine (or bowenite). I told him the same (except one piece he posted in the Message Board).
I do not know if he believes what we told him or not.

I do not like the term of "bowenite" because academically there is no such term in geology. I do not know whether the bowenite found in Rhode Island, U.S.A. is different than those mined in China or not. I also do not know the exact physical properties of so-called bowenite. If anybody would want of express their opinions, it would be more than welcome.

Unfortunately, many such "jade pieces" found on today's eBay and many internet sites are not really jade (nephrite or jadeite). Let buyers beware.

Bill

I have no problem with your evaluation Bill; nor the evaluation of other collectors on this site. These carvings of serpentine or bowenite that many "call" jade (even in China) are art pieces that fit in my collection. Stone art fasinates me because of the effort of the artists. Like my Asian watercolor paintings on tissue thin paper. It is just amazing pieces of art. The only problem is most forgot to sign their art. The one vase is signed but knowone knows who or what the two symbles are??
I always thought jade was green; guess I know very little about real jade! Thank you Bill for all your help!

Patrick:

Not too many Chinese jade carvings were signed. I believe the writing on your piece is the number "32". They would do that when they mass produced these pieces. The older pieces were marked with numbers in Chinese. Your piece had to be newer.

B

I was told by the collage professor that he was given the piece as a gift from a deligation of Chinese durring trade agreement, which was initialled by President Reagan during his visit to the PRC in April 1984, he said: The Reagan Administration did not seem to be planning to bestow any lavish diplomatic gifts on Li. But the Chinese deligation bestowed lavish gifts at every event hoping the gifts will provide an opportunity to complete the stalled Washington-Beijing agreement on nuclear cooperation. These high-level Chinese trips to the U.S. were a test of the U.S.-PRC relationship. The Collage Professor felt our politicians were very rude and threatening to the 76-year-old President Li Xiannian of the People's Republic of China in the 1980's; this caused an "independent" foreign policy and not aligning with either superpower. (USSR) The 76-year-old President Li Xiannian began pursuing China's own international agenda. Many elements of this agenda are contrary to U.S. interests.
The marked vase comes from the deligation as one of many gifts according to the collage teacher; which makes it newer. July 1985.

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