Asian Arts | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries | Message Board

Help
I am seeking 1984 Christies' auction catalog
Catalog name:

Fine Chinese Ceramics, Jades and Works of Art (Auction Catalogue)
Auction House: Christie's
City of Sale: New York
Sale Venue: Park Avenue
Date of Sale: 28 Jun 1984; 29 Jun 1984

I tried several sellers online, but in vain, if anyone has, pls let me know,thanks

park,

i don't think you will find a catalog in 1984,
for chineses arts. the oldest auction house in
china is about 10 years old. and only in the mid-90's, is were chinese arts are sold in big auction house. before then in was a sentimental
value only. and those pricess item's china had
before the westerner's trash the emperor palace.
had no real face value in term of money. just like the artist's of paintings or calligraphys, (he or she) did not sell their item's for alot of
money.



dennis

if you aren't in a hurry, ebay is often a useful source of catalogs

These catalogs turn up for sale by booksellers and on internet auction sites all the time.

You can't expect to find a specific want within a few days. Patience and persistence are useful.

Good luck,
Cal

park,

if you find a catalog for chinese art in 1984, it's a fake. just look at auction database and you can see what year they started selling chinese arts. and even chinese people don't know about there own china's antiques. i have some chinese friends in hawaii, that are even
doctor's. and were burned buying chinese arts, because they even don't know they own country history.

dear dennis, just because auction house databases only came online after the internet was widely available to the public (the 1990s) doesn't mean that those auction houses didn't hold auctions of chinese art before that time. Auctions of Chinese art have been going on in major western cities such as New York or London at least since the early 20th century, and the truth of this fact has nothing to do with whether or not your local doctor knows anything about Chinese antiques.

Dennis, Chinese ceramics exported to Mideast, Korea, Japan and Africa in 14th century, and in large quantities to Europe in 17th century. Not to mention what exported to Philippines and south Asia. Large auction houses selling what has been outside China for long time.

Good luck,
Cal

I inquired Christies' service staff, it does exist this catalog of 1984, but all were sold , Christies' just kept one copy for archive.

A catalog seller charged me USD 750 ,while most of his catalogs in 1984 being sold at USD 45 ---USD 100

anyway thanks a lot

the auction houses are pretty short sighted about stuff like that, but eventually a copy will turn up online. meanwhile go to a major museum or dealer and look at their copy.

I inquired Christies' service staff, it does exist this catalog of 1984, but all were sold , Christies' just kept one copy for archive.

A catalog seller charged me USD 750 ,while most of his catalogs in 1984 being sold at USD 45 ---USD 100

anyway thanks a lot

no way

1n early 20th c. to mid-1990's, chinese arts well
not advertize via internet. and with limited area to market chinese antiques. how does big auction house's sell to people in other states or
country. and if chinese paintings or calligraphys
is sold in major auctions (ny or london). then
why did the famous chinese painter's of the 20th c.(xu beihong,zhang daqian)just sold directly to
major auctions. zhang daqian, had to paint repoduction's of chinese artists that lived hundreds of years ago, because when he were still alive no one buys his paintings for hundreds if not millions of dollars. he sold his paintings for peanuts, compare to what his paintings are sold in todays market. and being an expert on watching old kung fu movies like (dirty ho) go to youtube. in that kung fu movie there are alot of chinese antiques. calligraphys or paintings back then hardly have a artist seal's. and collector seal's is so rare that, an
expert like me did not even see any in kung fu movies. collector in china, today don't stamp their personal seals on any calligraphys or paintings. and to me all old paintings or calligraphys with ton's of seals (collector or artist) are fakes. watch some old kung fu movies,
to see if i am right.

Dennis, if you are only 20 years old I can understand why it might seem a stretch to believe that things were done by mail and newspaper advertisement, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

The market for Chinese paintings in the US has always been quite limited. Zhang Daqian's first US exhibit was in the 1950s I think but Sotheby's and Christies weren't active sellers of Chinese paintings then. Ceramics and WOA were the major categories. Zhang Daqian copied old works because that is the way that Chinese painters have always learned how to paint, and Zhang was lucky enough to have access to good works to study and leading contemporary collectors; indeed he became a leading collector himself. Like Mi Fu nearly 800 years ago, Zhang enjoyed knowing more about Chinese paintings than many of his contemporaries who thought themselves knowledgable. He also enjoyed fooling them with his own forgeries. You need to read more and watch fewer kungfu movies.

park,

try ask the people who have 1984 catalog, and if
they can make you a copy. i don't see why they can't help you with that, unless there were no
1984 catalog on chinese arts. don't believe all
you read about provenance and owner's. because
there is notthing they provide to prove, like sales receipt of (buyer or seller) i could say
all of my chinese antiques came from marco polo.


dennis

if chinese ceramics and woa, was sold back then.
there would have alot kung fu movies, that would show chinese kung fu warlords. robbing people for
their chinese antiques. but in all(if not all) the kung fu movies that i watch. chinese antiques
were only shown by a kung fu master or a high government official, and mainly used to show-off
their antiques. and most of the ceramics were priceless, but that did not stop a kung fu master. who sometimes used antiques to trian there kung fu student. and i have watch alot of kung fu movies, were a student broke plenty of antiques. sure the teacher would be upset, when a student damage one. but it only had more of a sentimental value. alot of my friends and family decorate their homes with chinese antiques in the
1980's, and bought mostly oriental rugs and fine china. just ask any chinese antique dealer who sold in the 1980's in auction. back then chinese
arts dealers, go to people homes to sell their antiques. and come with a truck load with oriental rugs. chinese art galley at that time, were more rare than qianlong mark.

dennis

the best advise i will give to anyone who wants
to learn and become a expert like me in chinese
works of arts. is to watch ton's of old kungfu
movies, it is the only way to learn the true history of chinese arts. what the experts of today only tell fake storys about the history
on how famous chinese arts artists are told today. china have fake about anything and fakeing
the true history of chinese works of arts are just one of the best they have 'faked'.
back in the old-days in china, never did anyone
became famous or great for there calligraphys or paintings. they were well known calligraphers, but mainly were used by rich kungfu masters to teach there son's how to write. because the only way to have a job in china back then is to pass a
government written test. and to pass the more chinese words a person can write, the better chance to have a job(government position). and what the experts of today tell the story about the famous monks painter of the past. if a monk is not in shaolin temple praying, then the only
way a monk is walking all around china. is because that monk got kick-out of temple, maybe for eating meat or sleeping with female. and a monk to survive the out-side world is to beg for food. and only monks who were good at drawing had
a better chance of survival(the wise-ones). less begging for food, the paintings of the landscapes they have seen by walking for many years around china, were a token for food. no such thing as artists seals were stamp on any of
their calligraphys or paintings. just like those
in kungfu movies. just watch ton's of old kungfu movies and become a grandmaster like me in chinese arts. no fakes there

dennis

if i am not right about how, the chinsee arts dealers fake the arts history in china. then see
in web(robynbutin.com) it's a asian arts gallery in hawaii, and go to chinese paintings. that gallery have a painting by tang yin and tseng yo-hu. the tang yin painting have a price of $5,000,00 and tseng's at $25,000. anyway i
told the owner that his tang's painting is worthless and if it cost that much, then why not
just sell it at auction house(fake) the tseng painting was commission by an american senator in
1953. the funny part is on that painting is 2 seals of american senator, and 2 seals of d.h. grahams who acquired the painting from senator in 1987. well maybe all the old chinese paintings
and calligraphys in museums or private hands, with tons of collector's seals. are not chinese collectors at all, but are americans instead. no
art appraisers can decifer those collector seals.
and funny how a chinese painting have a american
seals. chinese artists seals only surface in the
late 1980's, thats when zhang daqian painted alot
of artworks and put stamps of made-up artist of the past.and not to deceive anyone who bought his
painting but to get his artworls in little sales
spice to it. in fact he got caught with thousands
of artists seals that only one was in his name, and the rest were just made-up names of artists.
and why are there none of those famous chinese painters seals sold in auctions. there are hundreds of old paintings, but no artists seals
sold. i knew chinese antiques and work of arts thats are tolded by experts today were fake,by watch old kungfu movies.'grasshopper' the grandmaster says.



dennis

Dear grasshopper,

a few US collectors have had their own seals made to apply to their paintings. John Crawford is one. this is not common however.

one way you can think about authenticity (and pricing) of chinese paintings is not whether a given painting "genuine" or "fake" but instead "more" or "less" close to the actual painter's work. this works insofar as we are often dealing with levels of uncertainty, not cut and dried certainty.

there are a handful of major works that publish painters' seals. when the seals turn up at auction, they are purchased. they don't turn up often.

as I understand it, the seals that Shen Fu found in Zhang Daqian's belongings were mostly if not all sophisticated reproductions from extant seal impressions on existing paintings that he then had made into seals that he applied to forgeries of his own making. whether he also applied them to real paintings that came through his hands I don't know.

I have objects in my chinese collection, that were purchased from Christies in 1984, and still retain the original invoices. In fact we have multiple items from 1981, 1983, 1984 bought at bot Sothebys and Christies.

Asian Arts | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries | Message Board