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Subject:Trying to determine what dynasty?
Posted By: Brian Gray Sun, Dec 25, 2011 IP: 71.58.160.27

http://jimracineauctions.com/ChiLinStatueBaliBirdsAndMore.html

This antique Chinese Ch'i Lin is going off at auction on January 1st at Racine's Auction in North East, Maryland. I plan on being there to bid on it, but can anyone tell me what dynasty this is from by looking at the photo in the link? Your expertise would be greatly appreciated.

Link :Antique Chinese Ch\'i Lin (Qilin). What Dynasty?


Subject:Trying to determine what dynasty?
Posted By: rat Sun, Dec 25, 2011

not Chinese but southeast Asian. don't waste your money, try to learn more about the type of objects you are interested in before you buy anything else.

Subject:Re: Trying to determine what dynasty?
Posted By: Brian Gray Mon, Dec 26, 2011

Thanks for that reply. I assumed because of the weight of the carved figure and the cracks in this very dense wood, that it must be very old. Plus, the paint has worn in areas, which I took as requiring years to achieve. I was hoping someone could look at it and tell by the style when it was carved. Again, thanks for your input.

Subject:Re: Trying to determine what dynasty?
Posted By: Cal Mon, Dec 26, 2011

"age cracks in wood"?

Wood can crack due to internal stresses when new-cut and kiln-dried too quickly rather than allowed to natural dry slow. Crack might not occur immediately after painted or used in house or furniture, but perhaps a few weeks or months later. Due to quick production rather than 'age'.

Note auctioneer web site does not say piece is antique. Someone's grandmother, born 1935, could be considered "very old". Some think items made 1980's look "old."

Good luck,
Cal

Subject:Re: Re: Trying to determine what dynasty?
Posted By: Brian Gray Mon, Dec 26, 2011

Thanks for your reply. I was intrigued by the extreme heaviness of the piece and the cracks in the wood. I've never seen dense wood crack like this without it being a few years old. Still, it's hard to say. And the wear in the paint is something I would consider an age indicator, because that is hard to fake. The Ch'i Lin is gold, but there are spots where the paint around the feet has been rubbed enough to reveal the undercoatings of red and silver.
I'll go to the auction, and I will do a lot of asking from the experts that show up there. It's this Sunday, and I think it will be educational for me...even if I don't buy it.
Thanks again for your input.

Subject:Re: Re: Re: Trying to determine what dynasty?
Posted By: Cal Wed, Dec 28, 2011

Ask auctioneer what is missing that was attached to loop on top of back.

There is no reason such a heavy piece should have "wear" unless persons clambering around it. Carousel pretty good guess.

"Wear" in paint or any finish easy to fake. Sandpaper or file, hit with chain, make wrinkle/crackle with heat gun, many other.

Good luck,
Cal

Subject:Re: Re: Re: Re: Trying to determine what dynasty?
Posted By: Brian Gray Wed, Dec 28, 2011

Thanks for all of the input. I have looked this item over very closely, in person and from every angle. I have been dealing with antiques for decades, and I am convinced that this piece is genuinely old. There's nothing fake about the wear patterns. The patina did not come from sandpaper, filing or heating. Also, as per the other suggestion from another person here, it did not come from Bali. The Garuda birds that are being sold on the same day came from an entirely different source, and they are from Bali. The Ch'i Lin came from a totally different owner, so these objects have nothing in common other than the auction house that is going to sell them this Sunday. The Ch'i Lin came from Asia, not a merry-go-round. My guess as to the reason for the wooden loop on the top of the Ch'i Lin is for when red ribbons would have been threaded through it during festivals. Just an educated guess, since I have seen this practice commonly while traveling in China.

Subject:Re: Trying to determine what dynasty?
Posted By: Bill H Tue, Dec 27, 2011

This auction house doesn't seem to know beans about Qilin 'metaphysiology'. Their carving might well have come out of Bali with those garudas shown on the website, either that or somebody found it amongst the wooden horses on an old merry-go-round.

FYI, the Chinese name for the Qilin is comprised of two characters standing for the male (Qi) and the female (Lin). According to my copy of the time-honored Mathews Chinese-English Dictionary, this auspicious creature has the body of a deer, tail of an ox, hoofs of a horse, one fleshy horn, and multicolored hair on its back, along with a belly that's yellow. It neither treads on the grass nor eats anything living.

Good luck,

Bill H.


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