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Subject:Chinese painting with several seals
Posted By: Tim Wed, Jul 08, 2015 IP: 216.27.165.146

Always excited to find a painting with calligraphy and a well painted subject, but when it comes with several nice looking seals...wow!

Anyway, I can't read any of it, so any info on the piece would be appreciated.

Size of the painted area is about 24" x 14".

Something I am curious about is the holding of the flower...what does it mean? I have seen numerous Mughal paintings depicting members of the royal family holding small flowers in a similar manner.

Thanks!
Tim







Subject:Chinese painting with several seals
Posted By: rat Thu, Jul 09, 2015

Good quality painting purporting to be by late Ming/early Qing painter Wan Shouqi 萬壽祺 and dating (given his birth and death dates) to autumn 1639. However, checking online reveals a wide variety of hands in works attributed to Wan, so you'll need to do some digging to authenticate this picture. The seal after the inscription is similar to but not the same as another known seal of Wan's. The other seals are collectors' seals. Could be an 18th century picture meant as a birthday present.

I don't have any specifics on the way the flower is held but you are right, it's not unusual. It seems to be an orchid, symbolically relating to beauty and unappreciated virtue. The lingzhi fungus held by the maid relates to immortality.

Subject:Chinese painting with several seals
Posted By: Tim Fri, Jul 10, 2015

Thank you. Wide range auction records and I've been down this road before where a painting is signed in the name of a well known artist, but turns out to be a later copy. with your help, you've cleared a nice path for me to explore. Many thanks.

Subject:Chinese painting with several seals
Posted By: Rat Sat, Jul 11, 2015

Check Cahill's Pictures for Use and Pleasure for similar examples/stylistic clues. I suspect this isn't a copy per se but a good anonymous picture to which the Wan inscription was later added. The seals are of interest but not very legible from your photos.

Subject:Chinese painting with several seals
Posted By: Tim Mon, Jul 13, 2015

Thanks. I don't own the book, but I see some available through Barnes & Noble, so I'm ordering one today.

Meantime, here's some close up photos of the seals. I found if you shrink the image the characters appear a bit more clearer.

So, just to clarify...

You suspect the piece is by an anonymous artist, possibly of the same period (17/18th c.), and the caligraphy & seals of Wan were added at a later time? Does that mean the collector's seals are of the period of the painting (original to the painting), or perhaps also added in the time of the Wan inscription?





Subject:Chinese painting with several seals
Posted By: rat Tue, Jul 14, 2015

Yes, that's my general thought. If this is an anonymous work, it's not very likely that collectors' seals would have been applied before the inscription and seal supposedly by Wan were added. The third seal above is by far the easiest to read and includes a collectors' nickname, but that doesn't mean it will identify an individual with known birth/death dates. In any case, I haven't figured out its complete reading yet. Mikeoz, Botan, or Super may be able to read it more easily than me.

To me, this is the best quality item you've posted so far. The detail of the silk seen in these seal closeups also shows that the picture is in very good condition.

Subject:Chinese painting with several seals
Posted By: Tim Wed, Jul 15, 2015

I am really pleased that you find the painting so appealing. I am more appreciative of the education that you've so generously provided me (and everyone else who participates in the Forum).

I'm hoping my most recent post of 2 modern Chinese paintings will surpass the bar set by this lovely Qing portrait.

Thanks as always.

Subject:Chinese painting with several seals
Posted By: rat Wed, Jul 15, 2015

Looking back at the first pictures you posted of the painting, it seems that this painting would benefit from a remounting, to repair the horizontal tear and lessen the dot of discoloration, and to remove all the wrinkling. Not cheap though.

The reason for posting again though was to mention a small show of Qing paintings of women at the Boston MFA that would be worth seeing if you are in the area. Because in includes a couple of erotic albums, it's buried in a room against the western wall of the ground floor's southwest corner. The show includes the large painting that is featured on the cover of the Cahill book though, for example.

Subject:Chinese painting with several seals
Posted By: Tim Thu, Jul 16, 2015

Thanks for the info on the exhibition. I'm planning to fly up to NY in August and drive over to Boston to visit family (I'm originally from Boston). So, a trip to MFA is in the works, but I didn't know about the exhibition, so thanks!

I wonder if I write with a Boston accent?

Best,
Tim

Subject:Chinese painting with several seals
Posted By: rat Fri, Jul 17, 2015

I'm in Boston myself, therefore unable to detect any trace of your accent....

Alas, it also seems the exhibit ends in two days...
http://www.mfa.org/exhibitions/court-ladies-or-pin-up-girls

Subject:Similar style painting but later period
Posted By: Tim Wed, Sep 23, 2015

Rat,

I bought this painting today at a local thrift store. Measures about 39" x 12" on paper.

The date appears to be Geng Wu, 庚午 1870, 1930, but that's all I'm able to translate.

Quality seems pretty good and this is the first time I've seen the background painted (apparently prior to rendering the trees and the figure of the woman).

Do you recognize the artist?

I'm not sure exactly how to phrase my questions, but I'm curios about the purpose of paintings depicting single figures.....Are these paintings intended to fulfill some sort of Feng Shui in the home, religious iconography, or simply a decorative element?

Thanks,
Tim







Subject:Similar style painting but later period
Posted By: rat Mon, Sep 28, 2015

I don't recognize the artist, who has an unusual nickname, Zhizhi (執之), and I can't read the two characters that may be the artist's full name which follow it. (The seal also reads 執之)

This one is not religious and there's no fengshui purpose for paintings per se that I can think of, though Chinese houses of the wealthy often had layouts designed to incorporate places for pictures to be hung. I think van Gulik describes this a bit in "Chinese Pictorial Art..." These vernacular pictures of individual women are often for male enjoyment. This one features a lonely lovelorn maiden (per the verse also relating her to the flowering plum) gesturing suggestively towards her mouth. It may sound crude but you'll find more such examples in Cahill's "Pictures for Use and Pleasure".

Subject:Re: Chinese painting with several seals
Posted By: Stan Thu, Jul 16, 2015

Below are a few examples from the Boston MFA show rat mentioned. I apologize for the quality. I only had my iPhone with me.

Regards,
Stan








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