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Subject:Chinease or Japanese literati painting?
Posted By: Tim Tue, Nov 17, 2015 IP: 76.110.209.69

Came across this interesting scroll painting that someone has framed behind glass. I'm interested in knowing if this is a Japanese or Chinese literati painting, the artist, and age. Any help would be much appreciated.

The painted area measures about 6.5 feet long x 10" wide. Ink on paper with some color added. Very hard to photography due to its size and the glass, but the paper is egg shell in color, not yellow, as some photos might show.

Paper looks Japanese, fibrous and has mica (or perhaps gold/silver filings) rubbed into the fibers.

Going from left to right, the scene depicts a newborn child being held by an old person (I think a woman since an equally old man is depicted nearby getting a massage). There after, people are depicted in various forms of celebration (dance, drinking, story telling, playing music).

Thematically, I'm inclined to believe it is Japanese from the the Edo period in a kind of Ukiyo-e / everyday life type of style.

However, the faces seem to depict Chinese characteristics and the signature seems to have a more rigid stroke that I tend to see more so in Chinese signatures. However, the red seal seems to have a Japanese look.

I have not removed it from the frame which is very heavy duty, so I am also thinking there may be more to the painting that is hidden by the matting, or perhaps tucked behind.








Subject:Chinease or Japanese literati painting?
Posted By: rat Wed, Nov 18, 2015

Seems to be a Japanese imitation of an early Qing painter named Wang Shi, from Suzhou, who was known for his figures. Not knowing much about Japanese painting though I don't know whether to date it as far back as Edo.

Subject:Chinease or Japanese literati painting?
Posted By: Tim Thu, Nov 19, 2015

So, I did a bit of homework. This is most definately a Japanese hand scroll. The story like format and the large size fits the profile, although many scrolls of this type are as much as 40 feet long.

I went through the entire MET online collection of Japanese scrolls. The gold rubbed paper and subject matter seems to point to the Edo period. Also, several Ukiyo-e artists of the Edo period share a similar rigid stroke to the characters of their names.

The first character of the name is either CHO or NAGA but that is all I'm able to decipher.

Just need a bit more help with the Japanese translation.

Subject:Chinease or Japanese literati painting?
Posted By: rat Fri, Nov 20, 2015

Yes, definitely Japanese, but I think you are mistaking the inscription for a Japanese artist's name. 長洲 is an old name for modern-day Suzhou. 王式 is the “artist's“ name. Wang Shi was apparently an early Qing painter known for his figure painting. The painting's "seal" has the 王式 name written in, as Japanese copies sometimes do. The red (Japanese-style) seal asserts that the painting was in the Tani collection, about which I am totally ignorant. The person who painted this, whether from actual Wang Shi album leaves or from some other Chinese example to which the Wang Shi signature was added, did not include his/her own signature.

Subject:Chinease or Japanese literati painting?
Posted By: Tim Sat, Nov 21, 2015

How about this theory? Perhaps the 'Tani' collection refers to having belonged to the school or artist Tani Buncho, 1763-1841, a renown literati painter who extensively studied Chinese paintings.

I wish I had more information to share on the origins of the painting. I purchased it from an art appraiser who's business is primarily based on large estates on Palm Beach Island, so he is not permitted to disclose information on previous ownership.

That said, some very fine pieces have come to me through his hands. My photos just do not do justice.


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