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Subject:Re: Zhao Mengfu (1254-1322) Scroll?
Posted By: hallo Mon, Jun 30, 2008 IP: 142.58.83.81

I've been thinking this for a while now and one thing came into mind.

This may also be the forgery by artist Zhang DaQian

Here's an article noting one of Zhang's master work fooling experts at the Museum of Fine Arts.
It too had Zhao Mengfu's hand writing.

interesting pointfrom the article "The museum’s lab found that all the painting’s materials would have been available in the 10th century—except for a white that wasn’t developed and in use until the 1920s."

http://thephoenix.com/Boston/Arts/53789-ZHANG-DAQIAN-PAINTER-COLLECTOR-FORGER-A-TRADIT/

Subject:Re: Zhao Mengfu (1254-1322) Scroll?
Posted By: wingchuntaiji Tue, Jul 01, 2008

Zhang Da Qian would not copy. Horse and Gong Bi Hua(elaborate work) were not his specialties. He was most famous in Shan Shui(Mountains and Water) and Po Mo(Splashing Ink).

Subject:Re: Zhao Mengfu (1254-1322) Scroll?
Posted By: pierrevdw Tue, Jul 01, 2008

Zang Da Chien did a lot of copies in his early days.

As he said: to copy the great masters is a must process when learning to draw.

However, I do not believe he forged the masters signature, or seals.

His painting subjects were of all kind, including fish, shrimps, birds, cows, cats, dogs, butterflies, horses etc...
But yes, he is most famous for his landscapes & waterfalls & scholar's portrait.
His "splash" style that came at the end of his life, due to eyesight problems according to some.

Here are a couple of his horse paintings.








Subject:Re: Zhao Mengfu (1254-1322) Scroll?
Posted By: Mason Wed, Jul 02, 2008

I want to thank everyone for the plethora of insightful information. I am currently looking for a reputable appraiser/specialist in the Southern California area (any suggestions would be appreciated). I will let you know what I find. out.

I will also be posting some other pieces from my grandmothers collection as soon as i get the photos taken. I appreciate your input.

Subject:Re: Zhao Mengfu (1254-1322) Scroll?
Posted By: spammenot1 Fri, Aug 01, 2008

Whatever you do, don't spend any money on it: this is not a Zhao Mengfu painting, and it is not a Zhang Daqian fake of a Zhao Mengfu painting, though the second photo that Pierre posted by Zhang refers to both a painting by Zhao Mengfu (and lesser relatives) in the collection of the Metropolitan Museum, NY, and to one part of a painting of five horses and grooms by Li Gonglin, believed lost in Japan.





Subject:Re: Zhao Mengfu (1254-1322) Scroll?
Posted By: christ i am sick of typing this Fri, Aug 01, 2008

regarding the photos above: the black and white is one of five horses from the Li Gonglin scroll believed lost in Japan, the color photo is the Zhao Mengfu portion of the Metropolitan Museum's handscroll. There is a copy of this handscroll in the Yale University museum collection. The Met scroll is on view with a group of other fine fine works of theirs until mid Sept 2008 if anyone has the oppy to visit.

Subject:Re: Zhao Mengfu (1254-1322) Scroll?
Posted By: who cares Fri, Aug 01, 2008

i'm sorry to say there's a lot of poor information on this thread.

on colors used in chinese painting, please read Jerome Silbergeld's and Amy McNair's translation of Yu Fei'an's "Chinese Painting Colors"

Zhang Daqian did indeed forge seals, signatures, and calligraphy. Fu Shen, then a curator at the Freer Gallery in Washington DC, discovered several hundred forged seals in Zhang's Brazil home. Unfortunately they remain unavailable for study.

The inscription by Zhao Mengfu on the Boston Zhang Daqian forgery is on a work falsely ascribed to Guan Tong. The Zhao inscription on that work is worse than the inscription on this work and would never be confused for Zhao's hand today. The calligraphy on this scroll is the single element here that remotely resembles Zhao's real hand.

Mason, the LA county museum of art has some decent Chinese paintings, you might want to contact someone there for a viewing, but in my view this work was made not long before your grandmother acquired it.

Subject:Re: Zhao Mengfu (1254-1322) Scroll?
Posted By: Shan Shui Mon, Sep 01, 2008

To idio_tic (above post) and all forum members.

You are invited to visit my blog, where I posted a similar image, attr. to Li Gonglin. Your comments are very welcome.

http://chinesepaintingcollection.blogspot.com/

A Collection of Classical Chinese Paintings

Scroll down to Li Gonglin - Two horses

I am uploading the image hoping it will work this time (I did try unsuccessfully in an earlier post)







URL Title : A Collection of Classical Chinese Paintings



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