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Subject:Chinese Export Creamer with British Coat of Arms
Posted By: Bill H Sat, Oct 31, 2015 IP: 74.178.203.149 I've posted below some photos of an 18th century Chinese export sparrow-beak jug with an unusually well painted famille rose British coat of arms. I acquired the piece from the estate liquidation of a descendant of previous owner Charles Krum Davis, who from 1933-1953 was President of the American Remington Arms Company. The jug is attributed by auction label to prominent early 20th century British collector W. Martin-Hurst (1876-1941). The piece, which is missing its lid, stands about 4.25 inches high. A note inside says it dates to around 1780-1790. |
Subject:Re: Chinese Export Creamer with British Coat of Arms
Posted By: Anthony J Allen Sun, Nov 01, 2015 Hi Bill, |
Subject:Re: Chinese Export Creamer with British Coat of Arms
Posted By: plasticman Sun, Nov 01, 2015 No, I am not a Brit. I do have over 40 years of collecting Chinese armorial porcelain,however, and have some information to share. The arms are similar to the Royal British arms used 1714-1801. These arms were not made for the Royal family,but for use in important Masonic functions.Below the arms are masonic symbols.This cream jug was made c.1775 and was probably once owned by the Duke of Gloucester. Regards,R.Cole,M.D. |
Subject:Re: Chinese Export Creamer with British Coat of Arms
Posted By: Bill H Mon, Nov 02, 2015 Thanks very much Tony & Plasticman. I'm much better informed, though still scratching my head about this jug, having noticed after posting my query that the motto, which should be "Dieu et Mon Droit" (God and my right), has the adjective 'Mou' (weak) instead of 'Mon'. Of course spelling errors were not uncommon when Chinese artists were copying foreign languages like this. |
Subject:Re: Chinese Export Creamer with British Coat of Arms
Posted By: plasticman Mon, Nov 02, 2015 The "error" of the letter U for N in the spelling of MON is quite a common type of finding in motto enamel work. The worker was painting in a language that he did not recognize and was probably copying off another piece or a prototype model. Some of the others are not as close as this one. Most of the time it is amazing how accurate the reproducing of arms and mottoes really were. The definitive expert on British armorial wares made in 18th century China for export to Britain is Angela Howard. She is the widow of David S.Howard(he of the tomes Chinese Armorial porcelain Vol.1 and 2)and so very sharp.She can be reached at Heirloom and Howard in the U.K.Regards,R.Cole,M.D. |
Subject:Re: Chinese Export Creamer with British Coat of Arms
Posted By: Bill H Tue, Nov 03, 2015 Thanks much for the referral to Angela Howard. Arlene M. Palmer, author of the Winterthur Guide, praises Mrs. Howard's late husband David as her muse for writing the book, also stating how he supplied "Virtually all the information about the armorial porcelains in the Winterthur...". One of these days I hope to find myself with enough cash or credit on hand to afford a set of his renowned books. |
Subject:Re: Chinese Export Creamer with British Coat of Arms
Posted By: plasticman Tue, Nov 03, 2015 Mr. Howard was my mentor ever since I wandered into his small basement shop in 1973 London. I am fortunate to have all of his printed works and do treasure them.I recently visited Angela in England and she was so hospitable that I am quite sure she would answer any of your queries about the creamer. I would love to have it my collection. |
Subject:Re: Chinese Export Creamer with British Coat of Arms
Posted By: Bill H Wed, Nov 04, 2015 I spoke today with the curator in charge of Chinese export at the Winterthur Museum, who graciously provided photos of their companion tea caddy to my small jug (1st 2 pics at link), along with a copy of their Object Report. The report clarified some information in the Palmer book, noting "The arms are of King George I, II or III..." and not just of George II. Also, a note in their file indicated that David Howard had dated the tea caddy to circa 1780, whereas the Winterthur assessment, based on implications of the spearhead border, was a date of 1750-75. The report further said that other examples of this service included a punch bowl in an English private collection and a cup in the Museum of the Masonic Grand Lodge of England in London; this data according to David Howard as well. |
Subject:Re: Chinese Export Creamer with British Coat of Arms
Posted By: plasticman Thu, Nov 05, 2015 Stylistically the creamer dates from 1770-1775.This was after the death of Prince William. Howard states the porcelain was probably in the estate of his brother, the Duke of Gloucester. Since he lived until 1805,this fits the time line much better. |
Subject:Re: Chinese Export Creamer with British Coat of Arms
Posted By: Bill H Fri, Nov 06, 2015 Thanks again plasticman. I spoke to Angela Howard on the morning of 5 November, and she was positive the porcelain wasn't to honor the 8th Duke of Norfolk, because he would have have been bound to use the Howard arms, besides which he died in 1732. We didn't get too far along with discussing William Augustus, Duke of Cumberland, because she had a pressing appointment on her schedule. She did suggest I email Mrs. Diane Clements, responsible curator of the Grand Lodge of London Museum to see if Museum files contained information on their bowl more recent than her late husband David's analysis of this service. Mrs. Clements was in a meeting when I called, so I left word that I would email a query to the address given me by Mrs. Howard. My own business kept me away from my PC for the rest of the day, so I'll try again to make contact with the Museum tomorrow. |
Subject:Re: Chinese Export Creamer with British Coat of Arms
Posted By: Bill H Wed, Nov 04, 2015 ERRATUM: My latest post has a typo in the fourth paragraph, which needs correcting to read "He'd been Grand Master of the Grand Lodge from 1729-1730, and died in 1732." |
Subject:Re: Chinese Export Creamer with British Coat of Arms
Posted By: plasticman Mon, Nov 30, 2015 Would you be interested in trading the pitcher for something more in line with your other Chinese art? |
Subject:Re: Chinese Export Creamer with British Coat of Arms
Posted By: Bill H Sun, Dec 13, 2015 Sorry it took so long to notice your query before getting caught up in holiday chores. Having spent a long time in the stacks studying History and matters Oriental, I'm rather fond of having something connected to my interests in both America's roots and Chinese History. And it actually fits well with other 18th century wares I have. |
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