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Subject:Hongshan?
Posted By: brian Mon, Dec 28, 2015 IP: 121.218.177.181 I would appreciate an opinion on this piece. About ten years ago I became interested in the Hongshan culture and its carvings in particular its crystal carvings as a result of which I have a large number. |
Subject:Re: Hongshan?
Posted By: Ernest Wilhelm Tue, Dec 29, 2015 It would be nice to see sharp pictures, at a slight distance , and very close. Or, better yet, go to an expert, museum, etc, as it is a very difficult subject, |
Subject:Re: Hongshan?
Posted By: Super Tue, Dec 29, 2015 Around 2006, I saw a lot of large Hongshan style "crystal" pieces on eBay. Some did have that "old" look and it was not easy to win one CHEAP. I finally won a piece and when I tried to scratch it I had troubles scratching it because its surface was so slippery and therefore I thought it might indeed be made of natural crystal because in ancient China some of the archaic pieces were indeed made of crystal and this piece appeared to pass the scratch test. However, one time by accident I broke a corner of the HS "crystal" piece and to my surprise I found it looked exactly like the chipped surface of a glass piece. Then I tried to scratch it very hard with a MOH 7 hardness pick and found I could scratch it. (Glass should have a hardness of around 5 and crystal of around 7). In short, I now believe many of these so called HS crystal pieces, whether large or small, were all made of glass. Since natural crystal has a MOH hardness of closer to 7, it would be almost impossible for the Hongshan artisans to find such large pieces of natural crystals, then tried to cut it out and then carved it without any metal tools. I had never seen any authentic/excavated LARGE Hongshan crystal pieces at all. If anybody has, please post pictures and reference of them here. Thanks in advance. |
Subject:Re: Hongshan?
Posted By: Antoine Tue, Dec 29, 2015 Since 1972, selling Hongshan pieces outside of China is illegal unless you have strong provenance showing that your piece was already in the US before 72. Your piece is an obvious fake. Sorry. |
Subject:Re: Hongshan?
Posted By: Super Wed, Dec 30, 2015 Not to totally disagree with you said, Antoine, but based on what you said, every single Hongshan piece sold outside China since 1972 would be obviously fakes? |
Subject:Re: Hongshan?
Posted By: snap Thu, Dec 31, 2015 Was it Ernest who noted (quoting someone?) that of about 350 genuine Hongshan jades known, 10,000 are in the United States. |
Subject:Re: Hongshan?
Posted By: pipane Sat, Jan 02, 2016 Enerst specializes in selling modern jadeite, witch he does well, correct me if I am wrong, but beside his professional experience I don't see how it could be relevant to authenticate archaic jade. |
Subject:Re: Hongshan?
Posted By: snap Mon, Jan 04, 2016 With all due respect to your extensive experience, I think you would agree that publication is one thing, and authenticity can be quite another thing. |
Subject:Re: Hongshan?
Posted By: brian Tue, Jan 05, 2016 Hi, |
Subject:Re: Hongshan?
Posted By: pipane Sat, Jan 09, 2016 Sorry again, this would be a recent copy, and not a good one. |
Subject:Re: Hongshan?
Posted By: Thayne Fri, Sep 30, 2016 Though these crystals are often thought to be fake, they are made from melting quartz crystals then coloring the melted rock. Copper makes a pinkish color, etc... It may be the very first form of glass that was manufactured in the world. I have numerous pieces of this crystal and have found most to be quite genuine. This process of melting rock is also where a lot of the Tibetan "turquoise" comes from- from melting rocks together- as well as "bloodstone" Hongshan carvings. There is even a green color that must have been buried as soon as it was made that turns turquoise blue in sunlight. |
Subject:Re: Hongshan?
Posted By: pipane Sat, Jan 09, 2016 Yes, without mentioning the HS jades pieces from before 1935 that were later on authenticated as HS... I think of a particular horse head auctionned some 20+ years ago... |
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