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Hi,

I recently bought this cup with a - what I think - possible Hichozan mark. Only it says "Hitozan".

So my questions are:
1) Is it a Hichozan product and is this a slip of the pen?
2) The name of the maker on the left: I figured out: Matsutoku or Shotoku. The characters read litterally "Matsutoku Zo", but where translated as : "Shotoku Zo". What is the correct name?

Someone any idea?
Regards,
Martin

It may be in this case that the character "Hi" (肥) is an abbreviation for "Hizen" (肥前)), the former province and porcelain-making center in the Nagasaki area. If this is correct the mark might read "Hi(zen), Toyama, Matsunori Zo" (肥[前],戸山,松徳造).

Since there appears to be more than one Toyama in Japan, not to mention that this post involves a machine translation using the "JDIC" online dictionary, there may be more to it than meets my eye. As such, I defer to the forum's Japanese experts on other possibilities.

Best regards,

Bill H.

Hi Bill,

Thanks for helping again, but I'm still not sure that the right 3 characters spell Hi(zen) Toyama.
I've got my reasons:
1) Toyama spells like 富山, but you´re probably right, there are more ways to combine 2 characters to make Toyama.
2) I found this link: http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Japan_Its_History_Arts_and_Literature_History_Arts_v8_1000031824/539 about Marks and Seals and on top of the page on the right you can read: "113. Hitozan Josen z"? = made by Josen at Hitozan". So apparently there was some village or place called Hitozan once, only there is nothing to find about that on the internet and no translation to Kanji.
3) The 3 left hand characters: putting the 3 together thru the Google translator 松徳造 spell "Matsu Tokuzo", putting the first 2 thru the translator 松徳 spell "Shotoku". Googling with Matsutoku doesn't help much, Matsunori (your proposal) the same. There is a number of facts to find about Shotoku, he was a Japanese prince long ago, but again, nothing about a potter called Shotoku.

One of the other forum helpers, called Guy, answered me once: "Japanese is complicated", well it sure is.

I hope indeed that someone with extended knowledge about Japanese can help with this.
Regards,
Martin.

I'll just be passing the buck to JDIC, which serves up the following:

戸山 (とやま) (p,s) Toyama


Of course the other character pair turns up even more:

富山 (とみやま) (p,s) Tomiyama (とやま) (p,s) Toyama (とみさん) (u) Tomisan (とみたか) (s) Tomitaka

However, 戸山 only turns up "Toyama".

This may be why I went straight to Chinese school without ever considering Japanese.

Cheers,

Bill H.

IMO, the mark reads 'Hichozan, Shôtoku zô'(肥戸山,松徳造).

For some reason that I ignore (writing error?), the place name Hichozan is written here with an alternative character 戸 that can be pronounced as 'go'. I would read the maker's name in the Sino-Japanese manner (on-reading) as 'Shôtoku'.

Guy.

Bill,

Thanks again on spending time on my questions.
By the way, I like your humor.

But I think I'll go with Guy's explanation, the more because I have another cup and saucer with almost the same samourai pictures in color and marked Hichozan Shinpo zo.

Anyway, Guy, Bill, thanks for helping me.
Best regards,
Martin.

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