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Subject:re -send photos
Posted By: plasticman Thu, Jan 11, 2018 IP: 24.205.81.2 I don't know if photos were sent,therefore I am resending them. |
Subject:Re: re -send photos
Posted By: plasticman Fri, Jan 12, 2018 hope |
Subject:Re: re -send photos
Posted By: Bill H Sat, Jan 13, 2018 In His latest Book, "Allen's Antique Chinese Porcelain - The Detection of Fakes", Tony Allen states that in general, a four-character underglaze blue Kangxi reign mark like the one on your dish indicates a production date after 1870, and usually closer to 1900. Following his admonition that for every rule there's an exception, I would add that a Mainland-published compendium of historical porcelain markings does show a few popular kiln dishes with four-character Kangxi marks that listed as period, though some look to me very much like Guangxu-period "Kangxi Revival" dishes, which are lauded in the West for their great fidelity to period form and decoration. Examples of such Guangxu-era Kangxi-style wares from my collection are shown herewith. |
Subject:4 character marks
Posted By: plasticman Mon, Jan 15, 2018 Thank you Bill.In his book "Chinese Export Porcelain" Lunsingh Scheurleer has a chapter on marks. He does demonstrate what he feels are legit 4 character marks on 18th century porcelain. He even goes on to explain how the 2 characters are removed so that the 4 remaining marks are shifted in their position. If you look at my photos of the obverse side of the plate (see 1st posting ), the cobalt and brushwork details look "period",and the reverse hand painted circles and border designs appear as they should be.It does make a case for the violation of a 'rule". |
Subject:Re: 4 character marks
Posted By: Bill H Tue, Jan 16, 2018 I haven't read the Lunsingh Scheurleer book, but there's no doubt that many porcelains with four-character Kangxi marks exist, as they are pictured in Palace Museum and other Mainland China and Taiwan publications. The vast majority of them are on imperial wares, with probably just a handful appearing on dishes from popular kilns (minyao). |
Subject:Re: 4 character marks
Posted By: plasticman Thu, Jan 18, 2018 I was ready to give up on 4 character marks and authentic 18th century porcelain when I thought to scan a book I got in Taipei. This is one put out as the"Masterworks of Chinese porcelain in the National Palace Museum". In the back of the book are reign marks that correspond to the porcelains shown in color. There are at least three examples of 4 character reign marks from throughout the 18th century. I am not assured the "rule" holds a great deal of water. |
Subject:Re: 4 character marks
Posted By: Bill H Fri, Jan 19, 2018 After some fruitless searching through museum catalogs, I finally dredged up the passage I was looking for, within Liu Liang-yu's volume on "Ch'ing Official and Popular Wares", which is No. 5 in his series called "A Survey of Chinese Ceramics". Definitely heavy reading at just under eight pounds. |
Subject:Re: 4 character marks
Posted By: plasticman Sat, Jan 20, 2018 The marks on the piece in question appear to be not Kangxi, but Xianlong. Am I off base in my interpretation? |
Subject:Re: 4 character marks
Posted By: Bill H Sun, Jan 21, 2018 I've never seen a Kangxi mark of any type attributed to the Qianlong era. The mark on your plate, in my opinion, is consistent with others found among the myriad that came with the Kangxi Renaissance porcelains of the late 19th - early 20th century, such as these circa 1900 kraak-type dishes. |
Subject:Re: 4 character marks
Posted By: plasticman Wed, Jan 24, 2018 This illustration from the National Museum in Taipei is listed as being from a Xianlong reign porcelain. There is one more of similar description on another page I did not include here. Please tell me to drop this pursuit into territory that I have no knowledge or education to continue in, before I make more of a fool of myself. |
Subject:Re: 4 character marks
Posted By: Bill H Thu, Jan 25, 2018 Pardon my failure to realize it, but we've been talking down divergent paths. The mark on the image you posted at the top of this thread on January 11 reads down and across from the top right as "Made during the Kangxi Reign" (Kangxi Nian Zhi - 康熙年製). The image you posted immediately above on January 24 also reads down and across from the top right, but it says "Made during the Qianlong Reign" (Qianlong Nian Zhi - 乾隆年製). |
Subject:Re: 4 character marks
Posted By: plasticman Fri, Jan 26, 2018 Thank you Bill. Of course you are right. My reading of the 4 character marks discloses my ignorance of their meaning, not just their number.I must learn to read Chinese. Doing the research was fun, even if I had a poor perception of the marks. I should probably stick with my prime area of concern, armorial porcelain.I now have over 230 pieces and would be happy to share any photos that would aid a correspondent. |
Subject:Re: 4 character marks
Posted By: Bill H Sat, Jan 27, 2018 And I certainly remain indebted for all the help you've given me in that "Field of Shields", thanks. |
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