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Recently, the most outspoken member at the other forum posted a jade ax with two interesting pig dragon motifs and some modern looking small seal scripts going in funny directions on both right and left sides of the ax. Those small seal scripts do not make any sense when they are placing together. However, the nephrite is dark green and quite nice and the small seal scripts are actually executed quite nicely.
This member previously said in that forum that he did not own any jade pieces and he admitted he did not own this jade ax when another member asked him. He said he simply saw it for sales.
However he proclaimed this jade ax to be either a Tang or even a Shang ax based on the following:
�Here is an extremely interseting ax: it could be as late as Tang I think. Proof that the ancients found neolithic tombs. It is the first such piece I have ever seen with actual neolithic imagery; note how different the zhulong looks, a real interpretation. Perhaps this artist was working from oral description? Seems unlikely, perhaps they just wanted to give it another aspect? This could also be a Shang ax, the charecters are from the period I think. Tang made many pieces with lots of charecters, the older charecters could fit in with the neolithic imagery.�
When another member questioned about his dating of this ax by saying that
this ax seemed to have similarities to the archaistic Qing pieces posted by his mentor at
http://www.chicochai.com/jadeforum/read.php?forum=1&id=27894 and it has
similar looking jade color, weathering, decorative script (though yours is not bird script). like his ax posted here.
He responded, �That would really be mindblowing: a Ching ax with a zhulong motif! I don't know where this piece belongs xxxx; I am convinced it is not neolithic, that's what makes it so interesting. If it's early Shang then it is still very unique but more easy to understand, since xxxxx has posted early Shang pieces with Hongshan motifs. The charecters along the sides are what make me feel it is a later piece, and I focused on Tang because they often used a profusion of charecters in their work.�
(Note that he other member did not really call it a Qing ax but simply an archaistic Qing piece. According to the article Old Chinese Jades: Real or Fake?
by Eric J. Hoffman at
http://asianart.com/articles/hoffman/index.html
� Archaistic Jade�Carved in a vaguely archaic style, or more often a mixture of styles and periods. Often done to �honor the ancient� with no intent to deceive.
Fortunately his mentor came to his rescue and said,
"The likelyhood that the axe is Zhou is more than probable. Although we have seen Liangzhu iconography used on Tang jades we have never seen anything resembling Hongshan art in that period. Certainly nothing Hongshan during the Qing period. "
This member was so happy he immediately concurred by responding,
"A Zhou dating would make the piece very important, a sort of missing link. It is a piece that testifies to later dynasties' awareness of neolithic imagery, either through their own tomb discoveries or else some sort of oral or written tradition."
That was when I couldn't hold my cool any longer and decided to jump in to say my two cents worth.
Of course I can be wrong but this is simply too funny. An authentic Shang Hongshan jade ax? An authentic Zhou dynasty Hongshan jade ax or an authentic Tang dynasty Hongshan jade axe? With small seal scripts that were not invented until the Qin dynasty and were executed in such modern style, placing together in the funniest directions without any meanings?
Now, of course I could be wrong and these other jade experts including this member could be right.
The funny thing is if a person decides to really dedicate himself/herself to jade collecting it will be a life time dedication and addiction because it will take a person's life time to learn everything (his or her lifetime allows) about jade. You must not learn just about jade but must also study Chinese history, Chinese religions, Chinese languages and everything Chinese because everything is pertaining to jade. This will take more than a person�s lifetime to accomplish this and you have to study day and night. Many times, modern forgers will make up some fantasy pieces without thoroughly understanding anything about Chinese cultures and as a result some very interesting and comical "fantasy" jade pieces were being created. Many jade carvings were often made for religious, ornamental or practical purposes and the words carved on them always had important meanings. Therefore they must be made for certain purposes or certain functions. A fantasy jade piece simply lacks any of the above. The more I try to learn about jade the more I find how difficult it is because although I know Chinese and have learned Chinese histories and cultures all my life, there is still so much I do not know.
That is why I believe it is very important for all the jade collectors to discuss jades intelligently, using facts and not misinformation or personal opinions or feelings. Only with such unified effort we can truly learn and progress together. We must be willing to share with and to learn from each other.
I hope you will find this link interesting:
http://www.chicochai.com/jadeforum/read.php?forum=1&id=28178
I find it extremely entertaining and at the same time educational. It shows that how easy a forger can make fantasy jade pieces that will fool many jade collectors. Your opinions and comments will be more than welcome. If you find similar pieces on eBay or wherever, please post their links or pictures here for comparisons.
The person who posted this jade ax responded to my comments,
"Since this magnificent axe is undoubtably authentic and probably from an early dynasty the only charecter that doesn't make any sense is you���.�(the rest were just personal attacks.�
Thank you.
Bill
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Re: An Authentic Tang dynasty or earlier dynasty Hongshan jade ax? - gman - Jan 14, 2008 (03:40 PM) 
- Anita mui - Jan 15, 2008 (09:15 AM)