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Re: Re: Fake Archaic Jades

Posted By: Bill
Posted Date: Sep 09, 2008 (10:45 PM)

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Hi, Tim:

I probably should have kept my mouth shut but I just cannot help it. While I respect Anita's expertise in jade carving in general and her experience in recognizing authentic jade carvings in most of the time I would like to respectfully beg to differ with her opinions rendered on jade materials and the price of which. You can only take them with a grain of salt.

I believe it is really very irresponsible for any of us to mislead members of this forum or anyone who happens to read this forum that the price of nephrite jade including BC jade is indeed cheap and is readily available in China.

If this is truly the case, then you should find many modern fakes selling inside China or listed on eBay by dealers from China made of genuine nephrite jade. This is simply not the case because almost most of the modern fakes were made of cheap non-jade materials such as serpentine. Another fact is it is just more costly to carve real jade due to its hardness (harder than fake material).

It always irks me when respected jade collectors start making unfounded and unsupported statements about the availability and prices of jade materials. I have posted so much evidence here in this forum previously to refute them it had almost become redundant.

If you would just refer to this article published by Friends of Jade in 2004:

http://www.friendsofjade.org/current-article/2004/3/29/bc-nephrite-report-2004.html

The following statements can be found inside this article:

"Cassiar jade will be available in limited quantities at prices from $20-$50/kg for bulk exports to China, more than double what it sold for before the asbestos mine closed. Expect smaller amounts available to lapidary and small market users as well as prices about $20-$50 per US pound (not kilos)."

"Nephrite Pricing, 2004:

The bulk of the pricing has remained steady, except for jewelry-grade nephrite rough, which is rising.

Prices in Canada, stated in US dollars:

Grade aa (jewelry) $20-$50/kg
Grade a $10-$15/kg
Grade b (carving) $5-10/kg
Grade c (tile and industrial grades) $1-2/kg

These prices are for bulk exports (mine run), based on 5000-20,000 kg purchases. Prices for small collectors, users, individual carvers would be double this."

If the Grade b BC jade is already 5-10 per kg in 2004 and that is for large 5000-20,000 kg purchases, that means most of the jade carvers would have to pay $10-20 a kg in 2004. Remember this price does not include shipping cost, duties, customs, sales tax, overhead, etc.

Now another interesting thing you must remember, since 2004, the Canadian dollars had gone up almost 50%. That means in terms of today's Canadian dollars, the BC jade will cost $15 to 30 per kg and this is wholesale price. This does not include price increase caused by inflation and increased labor, production and transportation costs. If you do not believe there is inflation, just ask Anita how much everything in Hong Kong and China are costing now. In short, how in the world can any Chinese businessman sell genuine BC nephrite jade at US$4 a kg when they have to pay way over $20 for each kg. Have you ever seen any jade carvings carved with BC jade? Do you have any idea how expensive they can be even for a small piece?

Now, may I ask where in the heck can one find BC jade (carving grade) in China at US$ 4 a kg?

Have any one tried to buy any raw BC jade rocks/slacks lately?

Now I do not disagree that many of these "archaic" and "antique" carvings listed for sales by all these Chinese dealers at high prices in Hong Kong or other cities were indeed "modern fakes" and may be made of BC jade or other nephrite jades. They were all made of identical material with similar weathering despite they were supposedly made in different dynasties. But the fact is in order for them to make money, especially for the bigger pieces, they must sell them very high. You are not going to buy genuine nephrite pieces no matter how modern they are for $1 a piece.

It irks me when Anita once told me she could find pig dragons that are similar to a pig dragon (I have) that was made of genuine green nephrite jade with beautiful carving for US$ 1 a piece in Hong Kong (I believe she later told me it would cost more). In the same token, Pipane said he could find similar jade (ear) ring like the archaic one I posted here for nominal prices. However, when I challenged both of them, none of them could produce any real articles at the prices they mentioned. If you travel to the jade markets in Hong Kong or some Chinese cities, even modern fakes are no longer cheap and most of them are not made of genuine nephrite.

The funny thing is bad modern fakes will actually cost more, some times, than carvings that were made of genuine nephrite jade and are archaic.

I once challenged anybody in this forum to show me evidence of his or her ability to purchase any jade carvings that are made of genuine nephrite jade, that is at least 10 inches long and weighs at least 1 kg at US $20 or below inside China. None of them can. Why? It is because it is simply not feasible to to make such large carvings with genuine nephrite jade and sell them at such low prices and are still able to make a profit.

Any large quality jade carvings that were made of unique and sometimes extinct nephrite jade materials with convincing ancient tool marks should not be discarded as "modern fakes" without further studies and examinations due to the simple fact that it is no longer possible to make such large modern fakes at present time.

I have studied a lot about jade materials, their origins and availability, but I have not been able to identify a large window of opportunity for genuine nephrite jade materials to be available in large quantity at any time for fakers to make large modern fakes and selling them for peanuts. There are simply no evidence at this time to prove this is indeed the case.

I know many collectors and members may have already made up their minds regarding nephrite jade (they are cheap and they are readily available). However, I cannot help but caution all of you, like any natural raw materials such as oil, the supply of nephrite jade is very very limited. Once they are used up, they will be gone forever, only old stocks would be available. If you do not believe me, just study the Taiwan (nephrite) jade and the Wyoming nephrite jades. Those jade mines were long gone.

Many nice BC or Siberia nephrite jade rocks that was at least half a kilo had fetched for over $69 or more each piece. I was very astonished to the fierce competition bidders were willing to pay for them. I had actually asked one of the winners who won two BC rocks at high cost what exactly he was planning to do with them. He told me he would just keep them for twenty years and sell them when their prices go up. I did believe he was very serious when he told me that.

In China, people had bought and kept large pieces of nice hetian nephrite jade rock for 20 years and obtained 20 times or more profit when they sold them. This is a fact.

Therefore, in my humble opinion, to believe that any genuine and carving-quality nephrite jade are readily available in low prices will be both naive and unrealistic. I am sorry if I have offended anybody. These are simply my personal opinions.

Bill

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