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Happy New Year all. I am looking for a member fluent in Chinese.

I've attached photos of one of two similar snuff bottles that started our collection. We have only seen these two of this ilk. We have a couple of books and they don't have rotating ones like this.

They are composed of two layers of porcelain. The interior rotates with respect to the exterior. If you look through the latticework on the side, you see a foliage pattern on the inner surface.

Here are the questions:
1) Age? - We have anecdotal evidence that these were popular for a short time around 1900.
2) The bottom doesn't have a date stamp. Is it a maker's/artist's mark. Who?
3) How did they make these things? I can't image how the two separate moving pieces didn't fuse in the kiln.
4) What does the back say? This is what I am dying to know. The picture on the front is comical. From my Eurocentric background, I associate the purple of the seated gent with royalty and assume a master-servant relationship between the two men. But then how does the servant get away with holding his nose? Inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks for any light you can shed on this item.
Stan Shursky

And here is the shot of the bottom.

This is a quite remarkable snuff bottle and very rare, regardless of when it was made. The form is that of the revolving vase first invented during the Qianlong era; an inner vase which revolves within an outer, reticulated vase. The idea is to turn the inner vase and watch the inner scene through an outer opening very much like one of those revolving lanterns.

In this case, I believe you'll find that the vase (snuff bottle) consists of 3 sections in principle (not including the removable stopper). An inner bottle, an outer bottle body and a bottle bottom which is now fused to the outer bottle. All 3 parts were first made complete, including decorations. The bottom has a slightly protruding center axle which would match the inner bottle's bottom recess. For this bottle, you would put the outer bottle over the inner bottle, then put the assembly over the bottom. There is a special glaze type material to fuse the outer bottle to the bottom after low temperature firing. Another special material is applied to the matching axle of the bottom and the recess of the inner bottle. This second material does not fuse. The low temperature firing completes the job. For vases, the success ratio is somewhere around 50:1 to 100:1 optimistically. A snuff bottle would have a higher success ratio due to size.

After its invention, this type of bottle or vase has been made sporadically in different reigns including Guangxu (there are mark and period examples) and early Republic of China (1920s). It has been revived in China today.

The mark on the bottom of your snuff bottle is a studio or library mark, that of a "Hall"; roughly "guyuetang" (Hall of ancient happiness or ancient music). There is a documented early Republic mark with the first 2 characters reversed, "yuegutang".

Judging by the facial renditions, I'd say your anecdotal dating of early 20th century or late 19th is accurate. It would be further confirmed if the biscuit is very fine and very white.

The painting and the inscription most likely are drawn from a folk tale. Unfortunately I don't know it. The classical language is obscure without knowing the story. The relationship could be that of a sage and a disciple.

It is a pleasure to see such a fine snuff bottle to begin the New Year.

Note: Today's revivals consist of 2 types:

1) Common ebay types, example attached. These in no way resemble your bottle. I believe that the bottom is probably glued on with epoxy. Starting bid $1 or something like that.

2) Official museum or cultural repro's of Qianlong types, similar in concept to Franklin Mint repros. A good repro will cost many hundred dollars if not a couple of thousand. They would be well drawn, but tend to do relatively garish Qianlong types, unlike your relatively quiet design.

Kang,

I can't thank you enough for your detailed and informative reply. As collectors, it is nice to know we have something unusual.

I've attached pictures of the other snuff bottle. It's scene isn't humorous but it is attractive. Again, I'd love to know what the back says.

Thank you again,
Stan

Hello Stan,

The second inscription once again consists of obscure classical verses whose allusions elude me. The last line appears to refer to autumn colors. But the flowers are peonies which blossom in the spring? Taken with the first bottle, I wonder if these are commissioned works to mark some special occasion. It was quite a fashionable thing to commission porcelain for a 60th birthday or a prospitious occasion, for example.

I wonder if you can take 2 clearer pictures showing the bottom including the texture of the biscuit and also the seal marks of the inscriptions. I am assuming the two bottoms appear the same.

Here are the shots. The first is the bottom of the snuff bottle of the two men with the red seal marks. The one on the right is on the right of the inscription. The one on the left is on the left of the inscription. Similarly, the second is from the snuff with the bird and peonies.

I wouldn't know a biscuit from a bagel. So, I hope this is what you wanted. ;-)

Thanks,
Stan

Thank you Stan, it is what I wanted and good shots. Anthony is probably right but I want to send it off to some people I know in the porcelain capital. By the way the shots show where the bottom is fused to the outer bottle. Also the right corner seal of the lst pic says "quality product". It pretty much confirms Anthony.

Also, these are high quality even if repros, the second type in my first response. With luck we'll get some answers from Jindezheng.

Kang,

You should have seen me with a spotlight on the snuff bottle (so I wouldn't get flare from the flash), a magnifying glass in one hand, and my digicam in the other shooting through the magnifying glass. It took me better than an hour to compose those two pictures.

I want to correct something you keep saying. The bottom is fused to the *inner* cylinder around which the outer vase rotates. When you hold the outer vase and rotate the top, the bottom on which the snuff bottle rests rotates.

I can't thank you and Anthony enough. This is absolutely fascinating. Also, thank you for your efforts on my behalf.

Porcelain snuff bottles are the most difficult. The possibility of conterfeits is high. Due to a lack of knowledge, I often have to make a buy decision based on worksmanship and gut feeling. I appreciate you teaching me so that I can rely on knowledge more often.

We bought these with no knowledge because my wife liked them. It was these two that got us started. We have about a half dozen more porcelain ones (of 38 total). I will pop one in here from time to time for your review. I could easily monopolize this website for months with the questions I have.

This is a *great* website.

Thanks again,
Stan

Unfoturnately I have seen this same painting style on modern bowls and though well executed is too modern to be judged anything other than late 20th century. The range of the quality of modern snuff bottles is staggering from piece which can pass in major sale rooms to pieces anyone would look at with suspicion as just plain ugly and cheap.


Anthony M. Lee
Asian Art Research

Wow Anthony, thank you for the caution. So it is a good repro. Maybe that accounts for the somewhat strange semantics of the inscription.

But Stan, if you don't mind, is it possible to have a better picture of the bottom?

Also, Anthony, would you mind giving a look at my tea bowl please? maybe even contemporary souvenir type? or Department Store studio type? Thanks.

Kang,

See the shots above.

Anthony,

Thanks for the information. The worksmanship is quite good. The one with the two men appears to have been used for snuff. The other does not.

Thanks,
Stan

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