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Subject:Probable Ivory Artifact from min dynasty
Posted By: James santiago Sat, Feb 01, 2014 IP: 76.24.247.169

okay I have a Very Beautifully carved 16" tall Ivory Sculpture... it was Properly acquired in 1967, but the sales Receipt and Appraiser list this as a Ching Dynasty Sculpture with the artist Unknown... after the test to determine REAL IVORY... a pin was heated til red, then touched to the statue in a inconspicuous spot... there was no burning or smell... it is real.... but the question is... from where in China and What Dynasty... I posted it on a site that was similar to this one... I had a man tell me that Quote ( If it is real, it marked the year 1464~1487 during the Min Dynasty, around 5 hundred years ago.( then he also Replied (From the seal on the bottom, clearly says this piece was produced in Min-dynasty, but why the paper says it was Ching's. I cannot explain.)

so... does someone else have any Input on this work of Art that I believe should be in a Museum ???? Jimmy





Subject:Re: Probable Ivory Artifact from min dynasty
Posted By: super Sat, Feb 01, 2014

Priceless, not your piece, but your message.

Subject:Re: Probable Ivory Artifact from min dynasty
Posted By: James santiago Mon, Feb 03, 2014

#thank you... appreciate your concern... you are very helpful.... what a wonderful response...

Subject:Re: Probable Ivory Artifact from min dynasty
Posted By: rat Mon, Feb 03, 2014

too bad the elephant lost its life for this. assuming it's ivory, it's a relatively low quality carving. the mark is poorly cut and claims to be a Ming period Chenghua reign mark, but these have been added to porcelain (and apparently ivory now) for centuries since. the figure might have been carved during the late Qing dynasty (ending 1911), or considerably more recently.

Subject:Re: Probable Ivory Artifact from min dynasty
Posted By: Gman Tue, Feb 04, 2014

Yeah,
We should be seeing Schreger lines showing in the cross section photo of the base, and I see none. A sixteen inch statue should have obvious Schreger lines.

The photo of the statue itself has no detail that would lead me to believe it is carved of the ivory of any of the usual species (see link below), maybe it is stone of some kind.

If you can take a photo which shows Schreger lines, we can go from there. It probably wouldn't hurt to take some better photos of the statue which show some detail.

Gman

URL Title :US Fish and Wildlife Ivory Idendification Guide


Subject:Re: Probable Ivory Artifact from min dynasty
Posted By: Anthony J Allen Tue, Feb 04, 2014

Have you considered this may be mammoth ivory? In which case the material is thousands of years old; the carving and stand though are modern.
Cheers
Tony

Subject:Re: Probable Ivory Artifact from min dynasty
Posted By: Gman Wed, Feb 05, 2014

My first thought was mammoth ivory too.

The identification method to differentiate between the Schreger lines of elephants and mammoths seems to be the angle of the Schreger lines (see photos in link of my previous post).

As closeup as the photo of the bottom of the carving is, I see no trace of Schreger lines to compare. If, as I wrote, the OP wants to post some photos of the carving and its base which show some ivory-like attributes, we can go from there.

As regards the OP's comment about there being no burning smell when he tried the "hot needle test", if it were ivory, it should smell like a burning tooth does as the dentist drills a tooth. If it were bone, it should smell like burning hair. And, if it is plastic, it should smell like burning plastic.

If there was no smell at all, it must be stone.

Based on the photo of the carving itself, there is not enough detail to comment, and based on the photo of the bottom of the carving, there are no details to indicate ivory.

I would say the OP needs to take some decent closeup photos showing the details of the carving, and above all a sharply focused shot showing the Schreger lines.

On the other hand, if that was 10,000 dollars someone offered for the carving, skip the photos and run, don't walk, to wherever the money is before the drugs wear-off of whoever it was that offered it to buy it.

Cheers
Gman

Subject:Re: Probable Ivory Artifact from min dynasty
Posted By: James santiago Tue, Feb 04, 2014

what a great help... I just love that kind of Negativity... Honestly would consider this a work of Art Myself... I guess I was Wrong... I should take the Ten thousand that was Offered ??? nahhh... I am going to hang on to it...

Subject:Re: Probable Ivory Artifact from min dynasty
Posted By: j lewis Wed, Feb 05, 2014

On your head be it. It looks like a carelessly produced pseudo antique to every one else.

Subject:Re: Probable Ivory Artifact from min dynasty
Posted By: rat Wed, Feb 05, 2014

Jason, if you like it, keep it. if you prefer 10,000, take the 10,000. if you want to know what it is and where it fits relative to other examples of Chinese ivory carving, you've got a few informed opinions. Why don't you try doing some research of your own and tell us what you conclude?

Tony, mammoth occurred to me also, unfortunately.

Subject:Re: Probable Ivory Artifact from min dynasty
Posted By: Sophocles Sat, Sep 30, 2017

Hi, your item is ivory (I am not sure why people can't see the Schreger lines but they are visible and the degree is correct for mammoth) and from the blue green lines ( caused by an iron phosphate called vivianite) I would also lean towards mammoth. I am not sure about the age but your piece looks older than the one I have, mine is from late 1800s to early 1900s







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