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Subject:Qianlong fam. rose M&P. What value?
Posted By: Corey Thu, Oct 08, 2015 IP: 193.169.154.224 So I had luck to acquire this famille rose double guard vase recently, which I belive is a mark and period piece, and could have a potential value up to ten million RMB. A similar one appears on the very high end dealer Chien Lung Tang's website. See link posted below. Unfortunately the vase got damaged, so it's value has been reduced dramatically. Any help much appreciated. |
Subject:Re: Qianlong fam. rose M&P. What value?
Posted By: Corey Fri, Oct 09, 2015 Oops! Link not fully functional. But the vase is depicted in the mar. 2009 catalogue, and also in the exhibition section for Qing period pieces on the dealers website. |
Subject:This design gets around, doesn't it?
Posted By: beadiste Sat, Oct 10, 2015 What is the original, which evidently is in the Palace Museum, actually made from - porcelain or cloisonne? |
Subject:Re: This design gets around, doesn't it?
Posted By: Corey Mon, Oct 12, 2015 Hello beadiste, and thank you for your comment! |
Subject:Re: This design gets around, doesn't it?
Posted By: Corey Tue, Oct 13, 2015 beadiste, could you eventually post the link for the other sale at liveauctioneers, please? |
Subject:Red cloisonne copy of Qianlong Palace Museum bottle
Posted By: beadiste Wed, Oct 14, 2015 Here is the link your requested - not sure how helpful it will be, as of course the piece is cloisonne, not porcelain. |
Subject:Re: This design gets around, doesn't it?
Posted By: Corey Wed, Oct 14, 2015 Just came back from a visit to the library at the design museum, but unfortunately the book about famille rose treasures of the palace museum had been borrowed by someone else, so I guess I'll have to wait then ... |
Subject:Re: This design gets around, doesn't it?
Posted By: Corey Fri, Oct 16, 2015 Pictures of the vase I won at eBay for $650. unfortunately the vase was never shipped by the private chinese eBay seller, because the clerk at the mail office told him that antiques won't pass through the customs. I told him to put a new label on the packet, only describing the content as a porcelain vase, and not to mention it's an antique one, and besides the vase looked more like republic period to me: |
Subject:Re: This design gets around, doesn't it?
Posted By: Corey Sat, Oct 24, 2015 The two results of the two closely related cobalt blue glazed mooflasks with gilt decoration and famille rose panels, Qianlong mark and period, were from a chinese book of auction records for porcelain. Another one that I find comparable, especially for the elephant handles, which was the only thing about the eBay vase that bothered me, was sold at Sotheby's 2007: |
Subject:Re: This design gets around, doesn't it?
Posted By: Corey Sun, Feb 07, 2016 Seems that vase was available again at Christie's December 2015, this time with an 'estimate upon request': |
Subject:Complete Treasures Palace Museum copy in cloisonne
Posted By: beadiste Wed, Oct 14, 2015 A trip to the library to view these books might indeed be worthwhile, as someone is evidently using them as "inspiration" for modern works. |
Subject:Re: Complete Treasures Palace Museum copy in cloisonne
Posted By: Corey Thu, Oct 15, 2015 Thank you for posting the links. It's very interesting with the cloisonne copies made by contemporary chinese artists. This might also contribute to the importance of the vase in focus as a historical piece and therefore the damage is more acceptable and the impact on it's value less hefty? I think the vase is an original one, not a copy. But I would love to hear the opinion of especially Anthony J Allen, Bill H, Rat and Arjan. |
Subject:Re: Qianlong fam. rose M&P. What value?
Posted By: Corey Sun, Oct 11, 2015 Impatiently waiting for the board to update. But what's most frustrating for me, is that I don't know if the damage has happened while the treasure was in my possession. It's a revolving vase that somehow can be separated into three or four pieces. The auction house's shipping department had put tape on the vase to keep the pieces together and I got frustrated because I was afraid the pulling off the tape would damage the enamels and after that I tried to see I could separate the pieces, So it's possible that the break off has happened while I was messing around with the vase; that there was all ready a crack and my unprofessionally violent handling has caused the pieces to separate. I paid $211 for the shipment, so I guess I'll contact the auction house to hear if the shipping insurance covers for damage, and then use the money to have the vase restored by a prof. conservator. |
Subject:Re: Qianlong fam. rose M&P. What value?
Posted By: Corey Mon, Oct 12, 2015 As for reference there is a vase at the National Palace Museum in the same palette of colors, that seems to be quite rare and as such also helped me in identifying the Altair vase as probably being an overlooked mark and period piece. Found it via the alaintruong blog: |
Subject:Re: Qianlong fam. rose M&P. What value?
Posted By: Corey Tue, Oct 13, 2015 Seem like I posted the link to Poly Auctions twice instead of the link to the Poly vase at the alaintruong blog, where you can clearly see the inner blue and white vessel. Hereby corrected: |
Subject:Re: Qianlong fam. rose M&P. What value?
Posted By: Corey Wed, Oct 14, 2015 While we still wait for the comments to come; a story about a woman's attempt to restore a Qing dynasty vase: |
Subject:Re: Qianlong fam. rose M&P. What value?
Posted By: Corey Thu, Oct 15, 2015 After closer inspection of the pictures of the Bainbridges vase, it also seems to me that the color pallete is the very same as of the Altair vase, although it looks like, and is described as yellow, it is actually a light yellowish beige ground color with the "bee cube" pattern lined in a darker reddish brown. So also in that matter, the two vases are comparable. |
Subject:Re: Qianlong fam. rose M&P. What value?
Posted By: Corey Tue, Oct 20, 2015 More on Bainbridge vase; it was apparently a controversy about the lack of a sliding scale of the buyers premium that resulted in the lack of payment, and not a protest against the trade of looted cultural heritage as rumors claimed. |
Subject:Re: Qianlong fam. rose M&P. What value?
Posted By: Corey Thu, Oct 22, 2015 (Thank you moderator, for not posting my latest message. I posted it by a mistake before I had corrected all the spelling errors, typo's etc. - sensitive touch-pad.) |
Subject:Re: Qianlong fam. rose M&P. What value?
Posted By: Corey Sat, Oct 24, 2015 Went to the library of the Deign Museum yesterday. But while he book on famille rose still hadn't been returned, I had the opportunity to take a quick look through the books on jade in the imperial collection. Learned that there is at least one other known example of a Han dynasty 'everlasting happiness' bi-disc in existence besides the infamous example inscribed with a poem by Qianlong, which to me is a valuable information, because I also own a very fine white and russet jade 'everlasting happiness' bi-disc, which I believe also is a genuine Han dynasty example. Unfortunately mine doesn't carry a Qianlong signature, so it's value is not as hefty as the one offered through Sotheby's recently: |
Subject:Re: Qianlong fam. rose M&P. What value?
Posted By: Corey Sat, Oct 24, 2015 They have some rather nice pieces in the museum by the way. For example there is a Hongwu period copper red kendi that is also referred to in a Christie's description on an example sold in 2008: |
Subject:Re: Qianlong fam. rose M&P. What value?
Posted By: Corey Tue, Oct 27, 2015 Seems like I've messed up the links again. The alaintruong blog shows one in the Avery Brundage Collection. The one at Shanghai museum can be seen at pinterest.com. And the result for the one that appears on Chien Lung Tang's site was again found in a chinese book on auction records. |
Subject:Re: Qianlong fam. rose M&P. What value?
Posted By: Corey Tue, Nov 24, 2015 At last I found the counterpart which is in the National Palace Museum, Taipei, where it is described as 'yangcai' porcelain: |
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