Asianart.com | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries |
Visitors' Forum |
Message Listing by Date: |
|
Message Index |
Back |
Post a New Message
| Search | Private Mail
| FAQ
|
Subject:bronze censer mark?
Posted By: Dave Edwards Thu, May 23, 2019 IP: 218.215.145.165 Can anyone help with this mark. The best I can do is ...Yu Qin Shan Fang |
Subject:Re: bronze censer mark?
Posted By: mikeoz Thu, May 23, 2019 Two out of three ain't bad! |
Subject:Re: bronze censer mark?
Posted By: Dave Edwards Fri, May 24, 2019 Thank you Mike. |
Subject:Re: bronze censer mark?
Posted By: Bill H Fri, May 24, 2019 I believe the reading may be 吳竹山房 (Wu Zhu Shan Fang) in Mandarin Chinese. This has differing possibilities for translation. Wu is a surname as well as an abbreviation for Jiangsu Province, which would make the Chinese reading either "Jiangsu Bamboo Mountain Lodge" or "Wu's Bamboo Mountain Lodge". According to Mathews' CED, the character 吳 also can mean "Clamorous", suggesting the possibility of "Noisy Bamboo Mountain Lodge", but Mathews adds a fly to this ointment, saying with regard 吳, "some read it as 'hua' in this connection". |
Subject:Re: bronze censer mark?
Posted By: Dave Edwards Fri, May 24, 2019 Thank you very much Bill. You must have spent some time on this. |
Subject:Re: bronze censer mark?
Posted By: I.Nagy Fri, May 24, 2019 I read it, |
Subject:Re: bronze censer mark?
Posted By: Dave Edwards Sat, May 25, 2019 Thank you I.Nagy |
Subject:Re: bronze censer mark?
Posted By: Bill H Sat, May 25, 2019 I, Nagy, you prove once again just what bountiful blessings you shower upon this forum. |
Subject:Re: bronze censer mark?
Posted By: rat Sat, May 25, 2019 The second photo here suggests an entirely different reading than those proposed so far... |
Subject:Re: bronze censer mark?
Posted By: Dave Edwards Sat, May 25, 2019 There seems to be a certain amount of disagreement in regard to this seal? |
Subject:Re: bronze censer mark?
Posted By: Dave Edwards Sat, May 25, 2019 Another pic of the censer under discussion. It looks to have significant age. |
Subject:Re: bronze censer mark?
Posted By: Bill H Sun, May 26, 2019 The translation differences are slim when you get down to the zhuanshu characters. Below is a graphic of the standard and zhuanshu characters as read by I. Nagy and found on the website by rat. I've redrawn the zhuanshu as best I can on the basis of examples on the following authoritative Chinese Etymology website: |
Subject:Re: bronze censer mark?
Posted By: Bill H Mon, May 27, 2019 I decided that my earlier elaboration might not make much sense without more information, so here's a screen shot of rat's findings, as cited herein. The red-circled labels under the pertinent photos of marks similar to the one posted by Dave read 臬足山房 (nie zu shan fang), which doesn't readily make sense to me. On the other hand, the circled four-character mark numbered "13" in the black & white text reads 杲竹山房 (gao zhu shan fang), which can mean "Mountain lodge with bright sunshine". However, I believe its only significance here is a probably coincidental resemblance of Gao/杲 to the zhuanshu form of Mei/梅, as used in I. Nagy's reading of the mark (at least pending further comment by I. Nagy). |
Subject:Re: bronze censer mark?
Posted By: Dave Edwards Mon, May 27, 2019 Thank you for all the effort and varying interpretations. |
Subject:Re: bronze censer mark?
Posted By: rat Tue, May 28, 2019 I can't, sorry. I don't know enough about bronzes. In general, however, given the ubiquity of copies and forgeries in this and virtually every area of Chinese antiques, it's useful to adopt a skeptical stance and insist that the object prove that it is correct for a given time period, and not start from the view that "it could date from X time, though the xyz aspect of the object is uncertain". |
Subject:Re: bronze censer mark?
Posted By: rat Tue, May 28, 2019 Thanks for clarifying, Bill H. I agree that the reading in the photographs seems puzzling, but thought it might be useful to get a full picture of the hypotheses that seem to be out there. |
Subject:Re: bronze censer mark?
Posted By: I.Nagy Wed, May 29, 2019 Dear All, |
Subject:Re: bronze censer mark?
Posted By: Bill H Wed, May 29, 2019 Anything I know about zhuanshu was picked up right here in the forum from others or in trial & error attempts to work such marks out on my own. However, the problematic character at stake in this particular mark needs to be resolved by someone who has spent a lifetime in the specialty. |
Subject:Re: bronze censer mark?
Posted By: Dave Edwards Thu, May 30, 2019 This is all very interesting. Thanks guys. |
Asianart.com | Associations | Articles | Exhibitions | Galleries | |